To think that not always, but quite often, it is the parents...

[ImImmortalNowBabyDoll]

I was a teacher for a few years and in the years I taught I saw behaviour getting MUCH worse and parents getting less and less inclined to support teachers.

I saw a facebook post today saying that it's unreasonable to blame parents for children's behaviour in school and it then went on to talk about how hard it is for ND kids to stay regulated at school and it's the fault of "the system" that they can't cope.

There's a family I know with 2 boys who are both constantly in trouble in school. The classroom frequently has to be evacuated because of the younger one's violent outbursts. He's about 8.

I saw him today in the library, running around, ignoring the librarian, and swearing profusely the whole time. They're both always out unsupervised, roaming the streets, and when I see him with his Mum, she speaks to him with the same language he uses for everyone else. Social services had to get involved because she kept smacking them, so now she swears and shouts at them and they hit her, and she asks what she's supposed to do now she's not allowed to hit them back.

I don't know if they are ND, but the problem is that they're barely being parented and when they are, they example being set is dreadful.

And sadly, they are not.

You tell a child off for an obviously unacceptable behaviour, tell the parent what has happened to keep them in the loop, and the next day, the head will want to see you because the parent has come into school to complain about you not liking their child and picking on them.

You'll also later find out that they've been on social media to shred you.

The child learns that there is no reason to respect the teacher (after all, their Mum/Dad knows how to do the teacher's job much better without all that teacher training and experience rubbish) and they can do what they like. Especially if they feel bored or things are hard work.

You said everything I wanted to say. 100%

Who is voting for unreasonable?

Of course it’s the parents’ fault!

Caning in schools, and a swift clip round the ear or a thorough walloping at home. The fear of both kept the discipline in my junior school, along with the fearsome aspect of the (always old and very ugly spinster) teachers who took seriously the maxim “don’t smile till Christmas”. Well, I am in my sixties!😉
Seriously though, discipline was maintained by force and fear, and the real social problems (including poor parenting) were largely ignored. The police wouldn’t touch a “domestic”, and parents didn’t dare to question doctors or teachers. We all know how well that has turned out over the decades.
Things weren’t better, they were just different. Yes, discipline was more effective on the surface in schools and in homes, but at what cost?

I have been a secondary teacher for over 30 years. Behaviour is appalling. It's not teaching anymore - it's behaviour management. It's not fair on the decent kids eho want to learn. As a parent, I think it's down to the parents. My son is autistic anf my daughter has ADHD but you couldn't meet two more well-behaved, polite children (now grown up!). I have also taught lovely students with a range of issues but most have been a joy to teach and you can tell why when you meet the parents. Similarly, when you meet the parents of the badly behaved students, and their interactions with their children you can tell that the kids don't respect them.

You teach respect and discipline from day one - no excuses. A lot of young people these days don't even say 'hello' or 'good morning' and never say 'please' or 'thank you' which should be automatic. The fact that nowadays boyh parents need to work isn't really an excise. We've always both worked but found time to read with them every night, help with homework, etc. If you're a parent you need to embrace parenthood and enjoy it but many parents just don't parent. It's sad, and it's getting worse.

I'm a teacher and don't really agree. I am also the parent of DC with SEND who are impeccably behaved in school, which I think is more down to the presentation of their needs than my amazing parenting. I do teach kids in school whose needs make them very very challenging to manage, pretty much impossible. I see it is equally hard for their parents at home. I also attend a parenting group through CAMHS and hear heartbreaking stories of parents at the end of their tether with trying to manage the aggressive and sometimes violent behaviour of their kids. The only support they seem to get is this weekly online group with CAMHS.

There is pretty much nowhere to go for support for either schools or parents in these situations and suitable educational provision seems virtually non-existent.

They bring up these children without any discipline & when these children get to age elevenish, start staying out until all hours. Parents have no idea where they are, what they are doing, the kids do what they want, when they want. They then ring the police saying they can't find them...discipline starts on day one, not when they starting swearing and threatening their parents, its too late. Instead of being a mate, be a parent. ND, is not excuse, my ds is ND, and been brought up the same as my other children, and not caused any unsociable behaviour, so sick of hearing their child's disabilities as an excuse. Behaviour is learned, so speak to your children like rubbish, swearing etc, don't be shocked when they start doing the same to you...

I agree. I also think there’s an over diagnosis of neurodiversity as people are desperate to find reasons for children’s unruly behaviour.

There’s a woman in our village with three kids, the middle one is in my daughter’s class. He has regular violent meltdowns, poked someone in the eye with a pencil and causes chaos often. The mother is on the community Facebook book page and is always referring to how he is autistic with suspected PDA. Now he may well be ND, but I’ve also seen her at the shops with her son and in various places around the village and she screams her head off at him and talks to him like he’s a piece of shit, seriously her language is dreadful. You cannot tell me that a child who is experiencing that kind of treatment behaves the way he does because of ND. I’m not saying he doesn’t have it, or maybe she at the end of her rope. But I think with the rise in ND diagnoses, parents who are just horrible to their children or who just don’t parent properly feel like they have a get out clause and don’t need to take any responsibility for their child’s behaviour. It’s easier and less damaging to their self esteem to blame a condition.
So yes, I agree with you.

Unfortunately the flip side of this is when you do raise a polite well mannered child (mentioned on every report and assessment) who happens to be SEND with complex needs, her needs get completely ignored and underplayed because of course the ones who are disruptive get the SOS funding etc.
School have consistently let us down over 6 years, despite me going part time, writing EHCP and funding bids for them and leading every element of my child’s care plan. She is 4 years delayed and probably won’t make it in secondary. All very preventable and the stress has made me seriously ill. And I am quite robust.
I agree about the parenting, I see examples every day. Was in a health club today and a kid was repeatedly slamming the locker and shouting. This is a place where guests pay a lot of money to relax. I would have stopped my child instantly but the parent said nothing.

I totally agree with you. There are benefits people can claim if their children are autistic from £131.30 to £761.37 a month, depending on the severity of the disability. There are many that need more money than this, but their are many who like to exaggerate their children's disabilities to gain more money. My s-in-l is a benefits fraud investigator, and that is what she she's daily

My son is neurodivergent, he's in mainstream school, his school are genuinely wonderful. They give him support, understanding, they are supportive of parents too. When he finished nursery his best friend went to a different school nearby and within weeks was non verbal in school, self injuring in school, miserable and school refusing and at best managing a day in the nurture room with a 1-1 and his mum was being treated like your 'typical autism mummy' who was asking for the earth.

They changed in P2 to my son's school and now we have 2 boys who happily take part in class, struggle at times to go in some mornings but have support in place so eventually manage in every single day. They are friends and have friends.

So is have to say the school makes a world of difference. My son behaves beautifully in school because he's happy and supported.

I went to a "family fun day" today which included some very silly comedic "wrestling." Despite repeated voice overs asking parents to keep their children at a distance from the ring and supervise them, a large group of mostly boys were at the ropes, throwing things at the contestants and aggressively beating the "losers" as they exited. No parents came anywhere near. I was totally shocked. At one point, I noticed my daughter going a bit close and my husband immediately went over, got her to take a few steps back, and then managed to strike up a conversation with some of the boys to explain that the contestants were actors playing a game and it wasn't ok to hit and kick them. If my daughter had gone up to the ropes after being told not to, let alone thrown things or attacked the "wrestlers" we would have left immediately.

Unaccompanied children couldn't enter this event- the parents were there somewhere, either not watching or not caring.

Funny on these threads how these moaning misanthropes seem to be condemned to a life being followed around by badly behaved children.

I imagine being English in a Scottish class isn't great either. It isn't racism btw.

It is not easy to get that. It goes by needs and not the diagnosis.

I imagine you probably see my four year old being physical in his preschool class as a parenting failure but we have tried and tried to stop this. He is ND and limited speech. Don't presume we don't discipline.

It isn't easy to get at all.

What someone who works in benefit fraud won't see is how many cases have to go through mandatory reconsideration and even all the way to tribunal.

If it was so easy, the number of people having to go right through to tribunal wouldn't be so vast.

Definitely. Plus a lot of what is on the forms does not convey the toll of daily life with a disabled child.

Yep.

Not to mention all of the evidence that is required. Medical professionals aren't going to risk their careers to exaggerate so parents can get more money.

Even solid evidence isn't a guarantee of the highest rates anyway.

Parents don't parent anymore they are glued to.a phone. What I've seen working in nurseries is one child in family is autistic so younger kids don't see any other behaviour and just copy it. Parents don't give a toss.

I also find this sort of thing really really annoying but, its a common problem and not just with children. People increasingly do whatever they want, and let their children do whatever they want, with little or no consideration for other people.

The small example.i have noticed is airports. The conveyer belts with luggage on them haven't changed in the 40 odd years i have been flying. But the way people behave has. It used to be completely normal to stand in a ring 1-2 metres from the belt, then when you saw your luggage coming (which you could, because no one was standing right st the conveyor), stepping forward to collect. Often passengers would help each other too.) Now, you cant see shit because people.stand as close as they can, and inevitably if you are lucky enough to see your luggage on the first pass you have to chase it round d waiting for an opportunity to get through and grab it.

Increased selfishness and lack of community is a huge problem.

Dd and I have been swimming this weekend. I have no problem with children screaming and jumping in the pool - they are young and excited. But when they are playing with a ball across the full length of a busy pool and its constantly hitting people, or they are smashing noodles around and hitting/splashing people, i find it so frustrating. Where are the parents teaching the children to be considerate of other pool users? Oh, I know - they are joining in the games and as much part of the problem.

You are right about the first part, as i mentioned earlier, but it certainly is racism if a child from a different country is treated badly because they are from a different country.

"Racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior"

And

"In the context of racism, race is not a biological fact, but a social construct. It refers to artificial categorizations of humans based on shared physical traits (like skin color) or ancestral, national, and ethnic origins."

I should get a decision on DLA soon but my son has just broken another bit of my house. It is costing a bomb. He has broken his sisters tablet because of his obsession with water.

That is funny because I have heard English people say they have been the victims of racism from Scots and then told it isn't racism.