Husband threatening divorce over a holiday.

[KiggiCalli]

I would like to take my daughter to Africa on holiday. For context, I am Black British and my husband is white. He does not like long-haul flights and is refusing to agree to the trip. His view is that because I visited South Africa four years ago, there is no need for us to travel to Africa again, and that we should choose a closer destination such as Europe instead.
My daughter, who is of mixed African heritage, has never been to Africa and is devastated that she is not being allowed to go.

My husband is threatening to divorce me, should I go ahead and book the holiday?

She needs permission from the other parent to take her child out of the country without the other parent.

Given the child’s 13 he would be a real knob to refuse permission but if he really wants to dig his heels in I guess he could.

if you travel to South Africa you need a lot of paperwork re your child so he could make things very difficult

Exactly. And if she’s raised in Britain she already lives in Europe so arguably there’s even less reason to go there over Africa. The prejudice in some of these comments is embarrassing. Hope Op just listens to the vote and knows she’s not BU.

News to me! I’ve taken my kids out of the country loads of times and have never once been asked if I have their father’s permission!

It is the case but not always actioned. I have a friend who can’t leave the country with her kids for a holiday because their dad says no. I believe you can get a flag on the kids passport

for South Africa you need evidence of the other parents agreement if they are not with you (you also need their birth certificates and marriage certificate if relevant)

Putting aside the racial heritage thing for a minute, if you don't mind (though I do get it), it sounds like the two of you aren't communicating very well. And that might be a bigger issue than just holiday preferences. Is he particularly stressed at the moment? Holidays involve thinking outside of the here and now, which can ignite tempers when people are under pressure and feel unable to engage with anything new or different.

For holidays, have you got under the skin of what a holiday means for each of you, and the extent to which the three members of the family should have say over holiday destinations and activities? He can't get his own way every time, so there has got to be room for the safe family friendly Africa trip that you have in mind at some point, even if not next holiday. And, as you say, maybe it can be in addition to the holiday he wants.

Sounds borderline abusive and narcissistic

I agree with the poster who advised you to post this over in Black MN @KiggiCalli, clearly people here are rather ignorant and deliberately obtuse with their responses such as "why are you going to an African country you have no connection with" and "what's you being black" got to do with it" etc. Come over to Black MN you won't have to deal with any of this ignorance over there!

The poster didn't say that 🙄

But the OP said she has no heritage connection to the country. Why is the husband being manipulative to try and get them to go where he wants to go to but the OP isn’t being manipulative by trying to get the family go to the country she wants to go to. The OP wants to go to Africa, the husband doesn't. There's a gazillion places to go in this world. Neither of them are wrong, they both need to grow up and find somewhere they both want to go to. Divorce is ridiculous over something so trivial. Both as childish as each other.

Agreed. I'm guessing here (and please @KiggiCalli correct me if I am wrong) that her DH doesn't want his daughter going to Africa because he has a fear of his daughter becoming "too black". If be interested to know how he interacts with black people outside of the immediate family, does he encourage DD to make friends with other black children where they live, at school, etc? What kind of area do the live in, is it diverse, and if not, who's decision was it to live in such a place?

@KiggiCalli If you want to go and take your daughter, then go regardless of your husband's manipulative behaviour. I don't believe your husband's dislike of a long haul flight is the only reason he is reluctant to go to Africa. If your husband is a calm person, could you try speaking with him again to find out if there are other reasons he doesn't want to go? It's easy to be critical of a manipulative person but people often behave that way when they're scared and if you still love him and are keen to avoid divorce then it may be worth trying to get to the 'real reasons' he doesn't want to go. If a person is really scared about doing something and decide they don't want to even try it, it's human nature to make a mountain of excuses not to go through with it and if a person feels railroaded into doing something, they may use the immature response of manipulation to get their own way but it's all about being on the defensive and doesn't necessarily mean they planned their threat. Was this a knee-jerk reaction which may be understandable if you know the full reason for him not wanting to go? OR was this a case of him just being a control-freak who doesn't want to go somewhere where he won't be in control or in a majority?

The most concerning thing about this is the divorce threat. That is totally below the belt, and really controlling. No one should make divorce threats unless they really mean it. I believe there is research that has found that empty divorce threats are seriously damaging to the marital bond.

I know someone whose wife was always threatening divorce. He decided he had had enough, and he broke up with her. He said he couldn't keep living under that threat. And she was in such shock when he said he wanted to break up that she had to be hospitalised!!!

As to the other points, think about this for a minute: Not only is he trying to stop you from going on the holiday together, he is also trying to stop you from going without him, paid for with your own money. Does he want to lock you in a cage while he's at it?? He's literally trying to force you not to use your OWN money ad your free will to take your daughter ON A NICE HOLIDAY. For this "crime," the punishment is divorce.

Wow. Just wow. I would be infuriated. How dare he try and control you like that? I'd show him just how much control he has by booking the holiday, for a bit longer than you were going to, if that's affordable.

What a Neanderthal. "Must have woman under control! Woman not holiday without me, Tarzan!" 🤢

I think your husband is being unreasonable to threaten divorce over this.

However I am struggling to understand your motivation for this trip.

You say you are black British but your daughter is of mixed African heritage.
You want to go to a country you have no connection with. There are 54 countries in Africa (55 if you count Western Sahara), they are all different. Even within a country the tribe you are from makes a difference.

People have said you and your daughter will be surrounded by people who look like you. If you are going on holiday you won’t be. Tourists in Africa are predominantly white. This does depend on what you have planned though.

I agree with others this is just about you and your husband having different ideas for a holiday. I don’t this is about heritage.

If a half Asian half French person said they wanted to go to Ireland because they wanted to connect with their heritage what would people say?

I live in Africa. I have a mixed race, dual national daughter. She is half African. I get wanting to see her heritage but we live in the country next to where her Dad is from and can see major differences between the two countries.

An awful lot of context missing here. Where in Africa? for how long? What is the cost? What is the itinerary?

I’d take your daughter and sack off your husband. 13 is a perfect age for this and I agree your DD should experience that side of her cultural heritage. My mother took my to Africa several times when I was growing up (sometimes as a family, sometimes alone) and they are precious memories.

So all of Europe is the same, and all of Africa is the same?

You've just been lucky not to be asked.

I've been asked a couple of times - and both times I was with the father, he was just in another passport queue.

If it’s the only holiday you’ll be able to afford and it means your DH won’t get a family holiday, I could understand him being upset. But to threaten divorce is very controlling behaviour and is waving red flags all over the place.

for me, it’s less about the holiday and more about him using the relationship to get his own way

Same. Couple of times I’ve travelled to SA with kids and ended up in a different passport queue from my husband. They wouldn’t let me and the kids through until we got my husband back, they checked off all names and scrutinised the birth certificates. You have to carefully check the requirements for the country you are entering as some are super stringent on identity papers and parental permission, due to the high incidences of child trafficking, sadly.

Not allowed?? I don’t think cost is the issue or you wouldn’t have thought of going in the first place. I would call his bluff and book the holiday for you and your daughter and tell him you expect him to of moved out by the time you get home, if that’s the leverage he’s using then maybe the relationship needs questioning

Erm....don't know your financial situation but you're lucky to be going on any holiday. I would go to Europe and not pit my kids against their Dad. Then save up for a fantastic African holiday in a few years

No, you are NBU, I can’t imagine not being able to visit my country abd that’s only Ireland to UK, granted it’s more complex but no YANBU 🥰

I think he is being super unreasonable. If he doesn't feel like coming then he can figure out a separate holiday plan in Europe for all of you, maybe over the Oct half term.

Michael Jackson had vitiligo.