AIBU to say the Green Party has an antisemitism problem?

[Aislyn]

I said this in a conversation and got an interesting reaction.

I’m basing it on repeated examples of Green Party candidates and members sharing conspiracy theories about zionists, downplaying antisemitism, or even justifying attacks on Israeli civilians. That goes way beyond normal criticism of Israel.

I’m not saying every supporter is antisemitic, but there does seem to be a pattern with some of their people, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call that out. Notably, many of the people who have come out with these views are still party members.

A friend said I was smearing the party and that this is just pro-Palestinian views being misrepresented.

Am I being unreasonable to call it an antisemitism problem?

I can't speak for others but I know I am personally well informed and am very aware that there are people who seek to weaponise terms for their own benefit. I am comfortable and very much at peace with my understanding of Zionism and why I oppose it. I have a great deal of sympathy for Jews who have been caught in the crossfire and are being accused (as ZP is) of being the "wrong sort of Jew" for choosing to reject the idea that Israel should somehow be the moral compass (lol) for every decision they make. There are many Jewish people out there who don't want to be dragged into this madness. Are they less Jewish because they don't have this nationalistic sense of Israel above everything else? Genuine question.

I do agree that there is a lot of tribalism, which doesn't allow room for nuanced discussion or critical appraisal of facts.

I have invited anyone who has read the above links and the comments made by Green Party members within them, to explain why they do not believe them to be Anti-Semitic, if that is what they believe. So far, no one has been able to do that, but certain posters have made personal attacks and comments about Jews as a racial group (which have been deleted).

You keep saying you're informed and educated and then proving the direct opposite.

Jews don't want your sympathy. If I'm anything to go by, they just want you to stop talking rubbish.

OK thanks - I'll take that. I can't refer back to comments as things have been deleted but I believe that I was referring to Jewish people in the context of this thread, as it seems that everyone including the OP has been coming from a Jewish (Zionist) perspective? I have had encounters with the OP before and it will always result in them accusing me and multiple others of "racism" without any facts to back it up. I wouldn't generalise Jewish people in any given way and if I saw that behaviour I would take steps to shut it down. I don't see Zionism as Jewish behaviour, because I don't equate Zionism with Jewishness.

No, of course not. But when people feel under attack they naturally push back against those they think are undermining their safety, particularly if they see a member of their group siding with their attackers, which is how many people viee Polanski's behaviour.

Equally, there are many groups which only listen to "the right kind" of Jew (meaning anyone who agrees with them) irrespective of the evidence or opinions of the majority of Jews. E.g. Jewish members of the Green Party being used to argue that there is no antisemitism, despite clear example of hate.

Social media has a lot to answer here. There are so many conspiracy theories and fake news stories spread on it. AI is so good that it can make videos that can be hard to distinguish from reality.

For this reason it is important to refer back to mainstream news sources, who generally verify the authenticity of news. Sadly I think many do not do so, or critically appraise their sources: we are seeing the results of this here with some posters resorting to personal attacks rather than critically appraising the sources that have been posted.

Its interesting that people don't want to engage with the details or evidence.

I don't know much about how the Green Party operates, but from what I've read the former deputy has spoken out, they're being sued, and there widespread issues with entryism which has meant they aren't engaging on key environmental issues.

Would be interesting to hear from any current/past members on their views?

What makes you think it's the majority of Jews? Where are you getting your stats from there, considering that not all Zionists are Jewish. How do you know that ZP isn't speaking for the majority? I'm genuinely interested as a lot of sweeping statement are being made and if I was Jewish I'd be absolutely FEWMIN at being told what I should or shouldn't think by someone - particularly by someone in Israel who has never stepped foot outside of their Mum's house, never mind into the UK and the real world over here.

@yebba2026 ”I can't speak for others but I know I am personally well informed and am very aware that there are people who seek to weaponise terms for their own benefit.”

Terms such as genocide.

I would also be interested in hearing the inside perspective regarding the party, past or present.

From the outside there does appear to be systemic issues, that aren't being effectively addressed.

I'm not really clear on why it matters if the majority of Zionists are or aren't Jewish but in the UK the evidence is that the majority of Jews are Zionists.

Lower estimates are around 60% - https://www.jpr.org.uk/reports/two-years-after-october-7-attacks-british-jewish-views-antisemitism-israel-and-jewish-life

higher are 80% https://antisemitism.org/almost-70-of-british-jews-are-hiding-their-identity-and-almost-half-have-considered-leaving-britain-since-7th-october-new-caa-polling-shows

And I don't think anyone is telling the Jewish community what to think (we're not a single group that follows one person, we all have our own views, relationships, connections etc.). Lots of Jews have independently flagged their concerns about Polanski's behaviour and that of the wider party.

Notably there have been a series of violent attacks against Jewish locations and Polanski then said "whether it’s a perception of unsafety or actual unsafety" which clearly minimises the danger facing British Jews.

I am still waiting for someone who disagrees with my OP to engage with the details and evidence. So far there is a lot of posturing and attempts to derail, but not a lot in the way of intelligent debate.

I would argue that the comment you highlighted by Polanski also feeds into the conspiracy theories that some have posted that the attacks aren't real or are 'false flat' attacks. This conspiracy theory has been reliably debunked by the charging of individuals for the Hatzola ambulance attack, for instance.

Coming back to the Green Party. They have seen the pro Palestinian marches and sentiment and have decided to mop up those people who wouldn’t vote Labour, Conservative or Reform due to their stance on Gaza.
They are just as big a shower of shite as Reform are, as can be seen by both parties piss poor candidates.

Thank you for trying to bring it back to the topic. I do agree that the Green Party is relying on the Gaza vote. It seems to the detriment of all else, including taking any stance against Anti-Semitism in their party, or having meaningful policies regarding other issues. Where is environmental concern in any of this?

I don't particularly like any party right now, but I am far more scared of the Green party than Reform.

The fact that people buy this utter shit is a sign of significantly declining intelligence in the population. Even a cursory read of the Forde report, the leaked Labour documents or the absolutely comprehensive debunking of the panorama programme - all of which are easily accessible in the public domain is enough to show these claims for the propaganda they are. Fortunately, people are going to vote green in droves this May

Again, it’s important to draw distinctions, or your argument starts to flail.

I am very, VERY unhappy with what Israel has done in/to Gaza.
This doesn’t make me anti-semitic.

I would never vote for this anti-Semitic Green Party. They won’t win the ‘Gaza’ vote. They’ll win the antisemite vote.

If you’re more scared of the Green Party than reform there is no help for you.
and if you think people are voting green solely because of Gaza then you need to get out and speak to people more.

Define antisemite

Someone who hates Jews.

Please, read the above links I have poster, and explain to me if you believe the Green Party to be Anti-Semitic.

I have met the Green Party while they were canvassing for council elections. They could only talk about Gaza, and could not respond when I asked what their environmental policies were. The party has completely lost its way.

All five main parties are standing my area but only two seem to have any policies. Someone from Reform and someone from the Green Party. I feel a bit sorry for the Green candidate as she's a local and really seems to care about protecting the local environment, but I could never vote for her because the Green Party will see it as an endorsement of their hate.

Thank you for not endorsing hate.

I have been to hustings locally and the Green party didn't turn up, the reform candidate was a bit of a loose cannon, while the others seemed fairly considered. Though Labour did decline to answer certain questions regarding Anti-Semitism.

To say you won't have a Zionist in your house is to say that you wouldn't have any Israelis or most Jews.

Would you have Pakistanis in your house? The partition resulted in huge violence, displacement and conflict. Would you have an American or an Australian? There was huge injustice towards indigenous populations when those countries were established. Why are Israelis singled out?