AIBU to say the Green Party has an antisemitism problem?

[Aislyn]

I said this in a conversation and got an interesting reaction.

I’m basing it on repeated examples of Green Party candidates and members sharing conspiracy theories about zionists, downplaying antisemitism, or even justifying attacks on Israeli civilians. That goes way beyond normal criticism of Israel.

I’m not saying every supporter is antisemitic, but there does seem to be a pattern with some of their people, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call that out. Notably, many of the people who have come out with these views are still party members.

A friend said I was smearing the party and that this is just pro-Palestinian views being misrepresented.

Am I being unreasonable to call it an antisemitism problem?

As a genuine question do you think that the Green Party economic policy of just printing more money to pay for increased Government spending (or Modern Monetary Policy as they like to call it) would work, given the experience of Weimar Germany or Zimbabwe?

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/zack-polanski-modern-monetary-theory-economics-b1261280.html

The fact that you can't understand why (most) Jewish people have a strong pull towards Israel is very telling. It's not nationalistic and it's not Israel 'above everything else' [classic racist trope btw - the idea that British Jews as more loyal to Israel than to their own country'].

Israel is seen as a lifeboat to a people who have been mercilessly persecuted by every country they have lived in and in recent history were almost exterminated altogether. Every Jewish person has a family story of people being wiped out or people trying to flee and being denied entry to every possible safe haven. That's why Israel is so important. Imagine being subject to persecution and knowing there is nowhere in the world you can go to be free of it.

You may disagree with the establishment of the Jewish homeland, but it's extremely ungenerous to depict the attachment of Jews to Israel as akin to white nationalism.

It appears the Green Party are trying to recreate 1930s Germany in more ways than one. If it wasn't so dangerous it would almost be funny.

He’s being criticised for his actions, or lack of them. Who has said he is the “wrong sort of Jew”?

I know you haven’t got around to answering my questions but I’ll answer yours.

There are many Jewish people out there who don't want to be dragged into this madness. Are they less Jewish because they don't have this nationalistic sense of Israel above everything else? Genuine question.

There’s quite a big difference between “not having a nationalistic sense of Israel above everything else” and publicly supporting a terrorist organisation that wants to stop Israel obtaining any arms. Then there will be nothing to prevent Hamas and the other groups forming the ‘ring of fire’ from achieving their aim to destroy Israel and Jews.

I can't speak for others but I know I am personally well informed and am very aware that there are people who seek to weaponise terms for their own benefit. I am comfortable and very much at peace with my understanding of Zionism and why I oppose it.

Oops I forgot @yebba2026 - I asked you what you mean by Zionism or anti Zionism. That’s great if you are comfortable with your understanding but it would really help if you tell us what your understanding of those terms is.

He did say this though…

“It will be my pleasure and honor to host an event in parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking … I’ve also invited our friends from Hamas to come and speak as well.”

and this is what the Labour Party have taken from the Forde report. He found “unacceptable incidents of racism, sexism, antisemitism and islamophobia”

Which, at a cursory read, is somewhat different to your claim.

What are the main findings of the Forde Report?
The finding of the report are extensive with regards to the period considered by the Forde Inquiry. A short summary is included here, with more detail available in the Forde Report itself:

• The report highlights structural problems with the Party’s disciplinary processes with regards to antisemitism. These, it concludes, were exacerbated by factionalism in the Party during the period examined by the report.
• The report identifies an antagonistic relationship between the then Leader’s Office and staff in the Party’s headquarters, with a lack of clarity as to the roles of each.
• The report concludes that disunity in the Party hampered its electoral fortunes and the overall functioning of the Party.
• However, the report does not substantiate claims that factionalism led to the Party’s general election defeat in 2017, although it criticises the existence of competing strategies.
• The report concludes that the recruitment practices of the Party have been too informal and insufficiently transparent.
• The report also finds that staff training, development and wellbeing have not been given sufficient priority.
• The report highlights serious problems of discrimination in the operations of the Party, with evidence of unacceptable incidents of racism, sexism, antisemitism and islamophobia.
• The report urges the Party to treat all forms of discrimination among staff, elected officials and the wider membership with the same seriousness as incidents of antisemitism.

labour.org.uk/resources/the-forde-report/

The Greens are giving out such mixed messages and vague wish lists that I’m not sure how anyone who votes for them knows what they are voting for.

The Muslim guys on social media angry because they’d been misled by omission of information on the LGBTQ arm of the party certainly didn’t.

Now you mention it, Hitler was a vegetarian, who shut down opposing views, wanted to nationalise industries, hated capitalism and blamed all of their problems on millionaires and Jews.

Thank you for highlighting the true context of the report. As always, some people seek to manipulate the truth, when the trust doesn't suit their purposes.

It's really dangerous. I wish there was some kind of safety mechanism in politics, whereby parties were not allowed to tolerate bigotry or racism.

Yes, I’m a bit bemused as the Labour Party summary of the findings of the Forde report is the exact opposite of @Skinnysaluki s claim. I wonder if he or she will return to defend that claim or whether it was just a blatant lie thrown out in the hope that no one would check?

Actually I disagree- I strongly believe in freedom of speech and allowing political parties to express racism and bigotry openly allows you to see them for who they truly are.

Far more dangerous is parties and politicians that hold bigoted and racist views but hide it or use code words or in the case of ZP his own religion.

What happened in those other countries is historic. Lessons have, rightly, been learned, and in some cases laws introduced to ensure nothing like that can happen again.

Israel persists today in its land grabbing and annexation of land that doesn’t belong to it.
And what it has done in Gaza is genocide by any definition. October 7th was an abomination; the sympathy and support of the whole world was within Israel’s grasp. Then, the retaliation was extraordinarily disproportionate and everyone was watching (and they still are).

Pointing these facts out does not render a person anti-Semitic. It means they are humans with eyes and ears, and can identify wrong from right.

Pretty much every party will have members that are antisemitic or racist or sexist.

I am more interested in how the leadership reacts to it and their vetting procedures.

Being a Zionist doesn’t mean you support all that though.

You’re building a straw man to make your point. You’re saying that people think being against some of Israel’s aggression is inherently anti-Semitic. No one thinks that.

You also seem to be saying that all Zionists support the war in Gaza or annexation of the West Bank, which is also not true. So perhaps what you really mean is that you wouldn’t have extremist settlers in your house but you’ve hooked onto the word ‘Zionist’ as a convenient shorthand. This is problematic and indeed racist though because it implies that all Zionists (ie most Jews and all Israelis) are beyond the pale. It’s a bit like conflating all Muslims with Islamists by taking the word ‘Muslim’ and using it when in fact you mean people with Islamist beliefs

Undoubtedly, all parties have had bad eggs. The prevalence of bad eggs within the Green party is however alarming, as is the lack of any decisive leadership to implement change. Vetting is another interesting question. Do you think that Green party candidates are being appropriately vetted?

You say "coming from a Jewish perspective" like it's a bad thing. Why can't Jewish people, zionist or not, talk about antisemitism?

Are you saying that Jewish people who don't agree with ZP have this nationalistic sense of Israel above everything else?

There is nothing to be gained from engaging with the poster you are quoting. If you scroll back, you can see that they have had multiple posts deleted. These contained lazy Anti-Semitic tropes and racial slurs, rather than any attempt at constructive or intelligent debate.

Usually when I'm spectacularly uninformed about a situation and have no grasp of the issues whatsoever, I opt to keep quiet.

You do what suits you though.

A serious question…. Does it make you feel better writing this ?

OH, FGS! They don't have an Islamist arm. They have a Jewish leader. They oppose Israel, and given what I srael has done in Gaza and the West Bank, and is currently doing in Lebanon, it should be criticised robustly. It is breaking international law in so many ways, it's hard to keep count. I think Polanski talks a lot of sense, rather than populist nonsense.

Praising the October 7th attackers or saying an attack on a Synagogue is revenge seems fairly Islamist to me.

Opposing Israel does not automatically mean you're not antisemitic...this is difficult for some people to understand...but saying you opposing Israel while also calling Jews demonic/supporting hate crimes on synagogues/spreading classic antisemitic cartoons and tropes is not the loophole you seemingly think it is...