AIBU to say the Green Party has an antisemitism problem?

[Aislyn]

I said this in a conversation and got an interesting reaction.

I’m basing it on repeated examples of Green Party candidates and members sharing conspiracy theories about zionists, downplaying antisemitism, or even justifying attacks on Israeli civilians. That goes way beyond normal criticism of Israel.

I’m not saying every supporter is antisemitic, but there does seem to be a pattern with some of their people, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call that out. Notably, many of the people who have come out with these views are still party members.

A friend said I was smearing the party and that this is just pro-Palestinian views being misrepresented.

Am I being unreasonable to call it an antisemitism problem?

I am wondering how many Anti-Semitic posts/personal attacks on a thread reaches the threshold for a ban.

Blood libel - ok by MN. Discussion between Jews and allies - quick! Delete!

I am very unclear regarding the moderation. Specifically, what is the threshold for a ban?

I have had a post deleted just now for saying a poster was not engaging in constructive debate.

If he were to be tackling it, he could issue a statement (not referencing any individuals) making clear his party's stance on Anti-Semitism. From an outside perspective, there doesn't appear to be any strong action.

I don't even know why mine was deleted! Nothing I've said has been remotely contentious.

He is a Jewish man, he can handle things how he sees fit without being told what to do by people who seem to think he is the wrong kind of Jew. I would hate to think that anyone would disagree on that point.

For those wondering about moderation, in the last half hour or so someone who made a very balanced comment was basically accused of agreeing with Nazis. Do you think that's an acceptable way to behave? Accusing someone of being a Nazi sympathiser because they don't agree with your definition of Zionism? I think it's utterly abhorrent and that comments like that should be looked at through a criminal threshold test.

So why hasn't Mohammed Suleman been suspended? Or Philip Brooks? Or Saiqa Ali? The only one who has AFIAK is Mark Adderley, whose wife is famous so harder to brush under the carpet.

I didn't see post you're referring to but AFAIK calling someone a Nazi sympathiser isn't illegal. Unlike antisemitism.

Except nobody did and the pp full well knows it. They were trying to equate Zionism and Nazism and they were rightly pulled up on it.

I mean another poster directly compared Zionists, of which 80% of Jewish people are, to Nazis and I doubt they've been dragged off in handcuffs. You made a horrible generalisation about Jewish people upthread and have thrown around a good deal of personal attacks and accusations but I doubt mumsnet are going to sent the polis round.

Therein lies the problem.

Going by the dictionary definition being anti Zionist would mean being against the existence of the State of Israel.
Most reasonable people would object to this.

So instead many "anti Zionists"
instead create their own personal definition of what Zionism means in order to justify their "anti Zionist" position. For example you might personally (but incorrectly) define Zionism as a belief system seeking the death of all Palestinian babies and therefore it is rational in their eyes to be anti Zionist.

Thats the problem when people feel free to create their own "truths" their own "facts and their own "definitions". It makes rational discussion impossible.

There does seem to be malicious reporting by those with their own agenda. Like you said though, Mumsnet should be appraising the posts before deleting.

I have also noticed that Jews are the only racial group on Mumsnet who are not allowed to say when something is racist towards them.

Green Party is full of anti-semites, that is obvious.

This thread has shown has rational discussion is impossible.

Instead of engaging in constructive discussion, there have been repeated attempts to derail by certain posters by posting Anti-Semitic tropes and making personal attacks.

So I'm supposed to take your word about what a presumably deleted post apparently said, but if I mention what your deleted post said it's a smear and I'm sick?

Maybe find another thread to derail for a while.

Isn't there a saying, when the truth isn't on your side, shout the loudest? That appears to be what is happening here.

What is your point?

You (and others) appear to think that the only acceptable definition of Zionism is the one that you use. I'm sorry that you are struggling with the idea that not everyone holds the same world view as you. Just as the IHRA definition of Antisemitism has been adopted by some, it isn't legally binding and there are people (including Jewish organisations) who would argue that the definition isn't what they believe to be true.

To repeat, this is AIBU. People are perfectly entitled to disagree with you without being subjected to a pile on.

A really interesting series of questions @CornishDaughteroftheDawn and I think it gets to the point that a lot of the time people are talking about different things and end up talking past one another (not saying that's the case on this particular thread)

People are very quick to adopt labels pro/anti without giving any thought to the problem or considering the nuance. So you end up in a sort of tribal argument with no real basis.

Tribalism used to work more effectively when groups were more isolated sonit was easier to have us v. them, but as seen by the implosion of Your Party, if the core beliefs aren't shared you can't build anything long term because eventually you turn on one another.

And of course creating your own "truths" and "facts", and not forgetting the Trump approach of dismissing evidence to the contrary as "fake news".

We are now in a world where people can each have their own facts and own truths.

Yes you have. You said "Jewish people can - and do - relentlessly post about "antisemitic" and I put that in commas because nobody has managed to come up with an example of where that has happened."