AIBU to worry that my adult daughter is keeping her distance?

[Lowenn]

Hi all, my eldest DD is 25.
She moved away for university in France in 2018. After her degree, she did her masters in Italy which lasted 2 years, since then she has lived in Geneva and briefly Lisbon.
Every time she goes through a break up, she seems to move cities entirely.
We haven’t properly seen her since Easter of 2024, so 2 years.
We tried to go and visit her without messaging first, she said she was too busy to even stop for lunch or dinner. We basically spent about 15 minutes with her, that was last year.
She sent a message afterwards saying that she did not appreciate us turning up without being invited and if we did it again she wouldn’t be so kind.
We have asked many times when we can go visit, she always says she’s too busy. We have asked her to come visit us, too busy. When my mum died last year, she sent flowers and a card, didn’t even call, didn’t come to the funeral.

Now I’ve been worried for a while, but she seems to be doing well and I thought maybe this was just her spreading her wings. I try to call her once a month. The last 2 have been really short.
Finally this afternoon she picked up, I asked how Geneva was, and she replied oh didn’t I tell you I moved back to Paris, in January!!
I asked for her new address as I send cards and presents. She didn’t reply.
I messaged her after the call asking for it again, she said she would rather not give it this time as she doesn’t trust us not to show up unprompted.

I am terribly worried, she had a good childhood, we have very good relationships with our two younger children, I don’t understand what’s gone wrong.

AIBU to be worried, what do I do?

My eldest is very much out of sight, out of mind with me. He is back from.uni right now. So very loving. Holding my hand. Cuddling me. Asking me up to visit him. Including me on days out. But once back at uni I know he won't contact me. He has invited me to stay so I will take him up on that a few days before I collect him for summer.

He has in the past accused me of being abusive. Like you op I have not been honestly. Yes did all the clubs. No wasn't perfect. My main cime was having more children than just him. Being poorer than his mates and having a small untidy home.

However I was abused as a child. My mum regularly beat the shit out of me from as young as I can remember. Would get me on the floor and kick the crap out of me. Tell me horrible things everyday of my life while smiling. Your fat. Your ugly. Your stupid. Yet she had no qualifications and I have a degree. She made me damaged. Ironically I could have been so much more without her as a mum.

I have an absolute monster inside of me. I know I could torture anyone psychologically in the cruelest of ways as she taught me to. But unlike mum, I don't get off on pain and have no desire to hurt anyone.

It's very hard to hear that because i dared to not marry a millionaire and have a single child I'm abusive. I want to retort "abuse? I could made you pray for death every day of your life like my mother did!" But I don't.

This generation is full of entitled shits. There I said it. I was too kind to my kids in search of never turning into my mum and still fucked it up. So you are doomed to fuck it up whatever you do. Punched them in the head aged 3 daily, pay for gymnastics it's all abuse.

You can't win. Honestly. Unless your perfect.

I know I love my kids. I did the best I could. That best was better than most. I love them and am.proud. they make bad choices and I will say something the once, happy it's their life to screw up.

What I find helps is matching their energy. The more you bend to please the more they expect.

I can go to my death bed knowing I didn't turn into my mum dispite everything against me that I would. Abuse isnt that you didn't always be their cheerleader 200%.

I'd match her energy and stop contacting her for at least a few months. The more you are always there even they are horrible in return, the more they know they can take you for granted. She presumes you will always be there for her whatever when she needs you. So why work for it?

In my experience it not unusual for individuals with a history of mental illness to want to move to a different city or country. It’s hard to say whether this a daughter who gone no contact versus a person who may be struggling mentally. In normal circumstances, it’s unreasonable to just turn up to someone home. However, if someone has history of MH issues, travels to another country and does not maintain contact; it can be a red flag. That being I said I don’t think the OP should make unannounced visits.

It's to do with some brain chemicals and areas of activity in the brain.

There’s a large body of research showing that environment and experience directly shape brain structure, activity, and chemistry.

This is the basis of neuroplasticity which is the brain’s ability to reorganise itself in response to experience. Studies in neuroscience (e.g. Harvard Centre on the Developing Child) show that brain development is driven by the interaction between genes and environment, while research in epigenetics shows that experiences can even alter gene expression in the brain.

Enriched environment studies and neuroimaging research also show measurable changes in brain structure, stress response, and neurotransmission in response to external factors.

So, it's not really accurate to separate “neurological” from “environmental” as if it's either/or.

The brain is constantly shaped by experience. What we call neurological processes are continuously influenced by environment and learning.

In other words, biology and environment aren’t opposing explanations, they’re completely intertwined.

Wow, just wow. Here's hoping your children, if you can be bothered to have any, do the same to you. Your parents really drew the short straw.

So sorry OP; this must be devastating. You’re getting a hard time on here - none of us know you or your DD so we don’t have the full picture.

Could her anorexia have returned? A pp may be right about an abusive partner or (heaven forbid) trafficking or worse.

Maybe email/write to her and ask if she thinks you did something wrong when she was a child, and if so, you’re sorry. Also apologise for turning up unannounced (even though I understand why you’d do that if you were worried).

Could she have been abused by a coach or similar in her sport? Or a relative?

Anorexia rarely comes from nowhere and often sadly does relate to home life, though I’m sure impossible to see from the parents point of view.

Just keep lines of communication open, tell her you love her and that you’re always there and open to talking.

In your position I would be asking the siblings if they could shed any light on this?

Edited to add: we also had a daughter who was ill with anorexia for 8 years and I always found the perspective of her 2 sisters very insightful

There's a lot of middle ground between not wanting to settle in your home town and not going home to visit for three years. Most people manage to move away and still make time for the parents that love them occasionally. (Assuming a normal, non-abusive family.)

I assumed that was a troll post, tbh. It's so goady.

But some people on MN are totally unhinged on this topic and will NOT accept that some adult kids are just cruel and entitled shitty people.

if my adult children were "cruel and entitled shitty people", who didn't want anything to do with me; I can't really imagine why I would want their company?
That's why some people on MN won't accept this as an answer. If your DC is such an awful person, why do you mind that they have cut themselves off voluntarily?

And entitled people generally want others around them - it's quite hard to be entitled in a vacuum.

I personally know of three such situations. The parents involved were lovely and were treated shockingly by their kids.

You knew these parents as parents better than their own children?

A lot of lovely people are not that lovely at least all the time behind closed doors but can’t maintain that front outside.

My lovely grandfather who did so much for others had anger issues at home, at times throwing objects. Other times he was lovely, generous and caring in home too. He gave family members long lasting emotional wounds.
He never acted like that with his friends or outsiders. He was always lovely.

I wasn't saying her parents did something to make her have anorexia/a bad childhood I am saying that someone in the grip of an eating disorder is not having a lovely time - if that time is during their childhood they are not having a good childhood from an internal point of view, not because of something someone is doing or not doing to them.

It's always possible, but in these cases I don't think so.

she said she would rather not give it this time as she doesn’t trust us not to show up unprompted.

Fair point.

Sounds like your first occasion of shown up unannounced was a classic case of fuck around and find out!

I totally relate to this.

My mother laughed in my face when I told her how desperately unhappy I'd been as a child. I went limited contact after this to protect my own sanity.

What would really help with our relationship would be if she actually listened to me and acknowledge my feelings. Maybe she could admit that she made mistakes and even apologies for neglecting my mental wellbeing growing up. But she doesn't. She denies reality and presses on like everybody is crazy except her. It's exhausting dealing with someone like that so I ignore the messages to protect myself. She's probably confused as to why I don't want to speak to her!

Well, obviously because parents love their children no matter what, most of them.

I think entitled people shove their families away more than anything. They tend to think their families are not good enough for them. (Not saying this is what OP's daughter thinks.)

That's a very powerful post, DP. I am SO SO sorry you went through that. Your mum should have been in jail. Well done for breaking the cycle!

Sorry about your ungrateful kid. Sounds like you're coping with it well, though.

This unfortunately.

I adored my parents, but as a young adult they were sort of in a box and separate to my life. I remember when I went travelling for a year in my early 20s, my mum apparently cried her eyes out when I left. This was before the internet but I kept in regular contact with my sibling, but don’t ever remember calling my parents.

When we had children though we moved near to them and became naturally close again. We briefly considered emigrating to the other side of the world but decided to stay put for the sake of my parents. We didn’t give this reason at the time, but years later when I told my mum, she became very upset and almost angry that we’d sacrificed what could have been an amazing future because of them.

She herself had moved countries in her mid-20s and met my dad, and sort of found her dream man and created her dream life but, like me, eventually moved back here and formed a close relationship with my grandma again.

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to hope your DD may do the same eventually (or even if she doesn’t physically move near, then to at least act closer to you).

@Redpaisley I'm always suspicious of people who are sooo nice and do soooo much for others, because often it is a facade, like your grandfather. Also suspicious of people who position themselves as "humanitarians," instead of doing good works quietly. Exhibits A and B are Angelina Jolie and Meghan Markle, who claim to be such humanitarians but have caused countless heartbreak in their personal lives.

A long thread that has provoked a lot of attacks on OP but also a lot of very moving personal witness. I couldn't read whole thing but in case OP will, and in case its not been posted upthread, couple of charities' websites where OP might find it helpful to read about other people's experience on both sides of estrangement:

https://www.standalone.org.uk

https://matchmothers.org

Also to say if this was my DD I'd be worried sick - that would be a fairly normal reaction.

These situations are complicated. When I see posts about ungrateful brat kids or narcissistic mothers I tend to think it’s black and white thinking. In some cases one or the other is true but for the most part people and relationships are more nuanced than that.

And you don't think children love their parents no matter what? Actually, the bond between child and parent is much stronger than parent and child - when actual children, children are entirely dependent on their parents for their literal existence and can't just decide to walk away from them (as, actually, many parents do walk away from their children). Children grow up bonded to their parents because they've learnt that they have to behave in a certain way for existence.

Absolutely disagree. I’ve tried many times to communicate with my mother about issues and every time she dismisses and minimises and I come away feeling worse. She would say I had a lovely childhood and she was a great mother but the reality is different. She would think me going “NC” would be totally out of the blue.

I think the adult children who dump their families for no good reason don't love them.

They are very often more nuanced than that, but sometimes someone is just a twat, whether that be the parent or child. I saw a meme once that made me laugh: "It's not me, it's you." 🤣

You can’t possibly know - as you agree - so why do you feel the need to judge and take sides? Are you not capable of having an open mind? Also it’s quite unusual, I suspect, for anyone to know three separate couples in their social circle who’s children have rejected them - are you part of a traditional culture / religious community?