To wonder why teachers say they don’t have flexibility - isn’t this the solution?

[Greeao]

I could be being quite naive here but chatting away with friends this afternoon, two of whom
are teachers, they were saying they have no flexibility and ’literally can’t go to the doctor on a work day.’ This was in comparison to other jobs in the group which were office based.

Surely you can go to an appointment at 5pm or 6pm in some doctor surgeries? Then for dentist and non urgent care you’d go in the half terms or holidays?

Similarly I don’t understand the issue with schools plays etc, surely it’s feasible to go to some of these events as not all half terms and holidays are the same for all schools and not every event is in the day time. For instance at our local school play starts at 5pm.

It’s not a goady post, I was just reflecting on my drive home and perhaps I don’t get the industry?!

Well I suppose the truth is that, if we were paid for the holidays and for 12 months of the year, our pay would he higher. But it isn't.

The NASUWT calculated that teacher workloads amount to 750 - 800 hours unpaid overtime across the year.

That averages out to the equivalent of between 125 and 133 extra days worked that we aren't paid for.

The average UK employee works between around 220 - 230 days a year.

So, don't worry, the average teacher is still working the equivalent of 20-25 weeks (or 6 months) more than your average full time office admin worker 👍🏻

Fact.

ETA: not even looking at school holidays, just a normal week. I get paid for 32.5 hours a week. 6.5 hours a day. I get in at 7am and leave at 6pm. That's 11 hours. I have an hour unpaid at lunchtime but work for half of it (I am aware others work through their lunch too).

So 10.5 hours a day. Or 52.5 hours a week worked. So 20 hours unpaid overtime a week. That is only the time spent working in school. I try not to work in the evenings but it can't be helped sometimes and I try to do minimal amount at weekends. I probably do a maximum of 5 hours a week evenings amd weekends so that 25 hours a week of unpaid overtime.

So approx 57.5 hours a week for 32.5 hours pay.

This increases drastically at the end of the three terms due to assessments, data inputting, and reports. And when evening events are arranged that aren't included in directed hours. And doesn't accunt for the days worked in holidays.

Again, not complaining. It's just the job but it is frustrating when people say, "The thing I've never understood is..." as those teachers are misrepresenting reality. Because no one actually thinks they haven't understood.

I’m a lecturer and am very lucky that my manager is supportive and accommodating, I can leave my class to nip out and take a call/go for a quick wee because they are adults, and I don’t have to cover playground breaks or lunches or whatever. My manager is happy for people to scoot off early or come in a bit late for a dentist or plumber if need be, and tries to accommodate parents going to sports days, concerts etc.

I do have the exact same issues with getting a GP appointment though and the idea that (even if you can get through) you can just request a late slot has given me a giggle today. I can remember hiding in a basement stairwell discussing my medical (gynae related) problems with a GP because the “call between 10-12” when I wouldn’t have been teaching came at 1 when I was. That was a pre-booked appointment I’d waited six weeks for.

Do you remember the big thing about Drs and setting the legal maximum 48hrs working week a few years ago?

Teachers regularly work 60+ hours per week. At least once a half-term don't get 11 hours rest between shifts (evening requirement such as parents evening/open evening then back in at normal time the next day). And if you do residentials then the legal work limits are laughable! It's not uncommon for teachers to sacrifice their legally mandated 20mins for lunch to students needs.

Obviously other professions can exceed 48hrs. They are generally either paid more, or paid overtime.

Nurses/Drs may have longer shifts (which also overrun for no overtime) but less shifts per week. So a ITU nurse might do 12 hr shifts as standard, but only 3x a week as a standard contract (can do more for extra £).

30K is a pretty shit salary for 60+ hr working weeks, no matter how you look at it. 30k is fine for a starting salary for a professional occupation that requires further study, but it's kinda crap to have only gone up to 40k after decades in the profession perfecting your skills and taking on additional responsibilities for no extra. How many other professions would ask you to lead an area of business (subject lead) without a payrise?

No teacher with an ounce of common sense is saying they are the only ones to have such shit conditions and have the hardest job ever. Other professions do, in different ways.

But no one with an ounce of common sense and knowledge about the teaching profession would think that teachers working conditions are acceptable in their current form.

People in most other professions don't get regularly criticised on social media. That's why teachers tend to be quite vocal in response.

Become a teacher then.

I can’t get appointments at 5/6pm what sort of utopia is that ffs??
I ring my GP at 8am and get put in a queue (it can last 45 mins) and I can’t wait that long with a tutor group ?? And then they tell ME the time they will see ME? We can’t dictate times just because we are teachers. Every single GP appointment at my surgery needs to be booked in that way urgent or non urgent.

Its always like a fucking emergency at work if god forbid you needed an urgent appointment. It’s a horrible way to live in term time.

I have to cancel my own child’s physio appointment also because it falls in term time. God forbid I take him to an appointment.

I was waiting for a call-back from the doctor last week so I took my phone into my lessons and told the kids if it rang, I'd have to answer it.

No teacher on any of these threads have ever said they have it worse than anyone else. They are just explaining how it is when someone asks why they can’t just do xxx

Then it sounds like you're very lucky with your GP surgery! With mine the only way to get an appointment is to call at 8.30am and wait in a queue, for anything up to half an hour. Since children come into school at 8.35am, and before that I'm usually in meetings so I'm not really able to do this. But even if I was somehow able to get through and speak to the receptionist before 8.35am, all they do at that point is ask what the problem is and then tell you a doctor will call you at some point today. No face to face appointments are offered without speaking to a GP on the phone first, and you're not able to request a call at a specific time. It's a ridiculously inflexible system that assumes no one starts work before 9 and everyone can answer their phone at any given moment in the working day but there you go.

I've never had a sports day or any other school event at 5 or any time like that

Often when I call for a doctor appointment there's not an appointment I can take that late in the day either. It would be easier if there was

I had to cancel my child's speech and language appointments for the same reason .

No I don’t want to teach…I love my job! that’s not my point either…I’m not saying it’s an easy job just saying they don’t have it harder than others.

And teachers aren’t saying they do either.
There is a recruitment and retention crisis though, so it’s clearly not a bed of roses.

I wonder what job you do. Maybe you can tell us so teachers can tell you all about it. I assume it’s something with no flexibility where you work way more hours every week than your contract says based on the chip on your shoulder about teaching.

No teacher comes on here to complain that their job is harder than others. They just get on with their jobs.
But understandably they do respond to defend themselves from the constant threads and posts from ignorant people about how bloody “easy” teachers have it.
No other profession gets treated the way teaching does.

Would other people like it if threads got started every couple of days about how easy their job is? And how they get paid for nothing and have all these holidays? How would you feel if you had a really bloody knackering, stressful job and random people constantly berate you about how easy it is?
I think most people would get a bit fed up in the end!
How about we respect other people’s jobs, whether they be a teacher, a cleaner, a farmer…? Someone is out there earning a living (and educating your children!) and paying taxes. So how about everyone concentrate on their own job. Or go and train to be a teacher if it’s that cushy a number.

Not moaning. Explaining. For the idiots who keep starting and commenting on these threads not 'understanding'.

Stop posting shit about us and we'll stop defending ourselves 👍🏻

@neverbeenskiing

It is hideous isn’t it? I had to make an urgent GP appointment for myself one day. Getting cover for me to ring initially was the equivalent of some sort of catastrophe at work. I then waited for the call (I have a Fitbit that alerts me as phone on silent in my bag under desk). I just about managed to take the call as another TA was in the room. I ran to the staff room as obviously my own phone out in a school corridor = safeguarding.

Just a massive palava when I was already stressed about my urgent health issue. My sisters a nurse and does three long shifts, she would struggle on a ward to take a call but she does have two weekdays off a week whereby she can factor in this sort of thing. It’s hideously inflexible.

I think many people have a go because thry are jealous because of perceived amount of holidays, and ignorantly assume that equates to much more free time. When of course in reality, most teachers have much less free time than the average 9 to 5 because of the sheer workload that consumes evenings and weekends. I would say it is certainly one of the more emotionally draining jobs and one of the worst for work/life balance. But I wouldn't feel qualified to say if it's overall harder than any other job -- that's probably relative to the individual. Really nobody should be making assumptions about how hard other people's jobs are, especially if they haven't done that job themselves.

Depends on the school but I am not allowed to go to appointments during school time.

Can people even still ask for this? We only deal with robots and there are four bookable appointments left for this month, all mid morning. Dread to think how long I’d have to wait for a 5pm one, given the GP only works two days.

Yes this.
It probably goes both ways though. Teachers being more vocal open themselves up to further ignorant criticism.

Thing is, if there was any ounce of respect for the profession in the first place, teachers wouldn't have a need to moan. Parents would be less demanding and rude, they'd be paid alot more, and their holidays would be better respected.