To wonder why teachers say they don’t have flexibility - isn’t this the solution?

[Greeao]

I could be being quite naive here but chatting away with friends this afternoon, two of whom
are teachers, they were saying they have no flexibility and ’literally can’t go to the doctor on a work day.’ This was in comparison to other jobs in the group which were office based.

Surely you can go to an appointment at 5pm or 6pm in some doctor surgeries? Then for dentist and non urgent care you’d go in the half terms or holidays?

Similarly I don’t understand the issue with schools plays etc, surely it’s feasible to go to some of these events as not all half terms and holidays are the same for all schools and not every event is in the day time. For instance at our local school play starts at 5pm.

It’s not a goady post, I was just reflecting on my drive home and perhaps I don’t get the industry?!

Why do some people like to pile on all kinds of workers? It’s weird and bitter.

Ours doctors only does same day appointments now so you can't request a time and they will often just give you a telephone appointment (which is at any radome time) if they think you don't need to see someone. This is why I have to do all of my appointments on the day off I have in the middle of the week (lucky for me I only work 4 days) I can't answer the phone during the school day.

Yeah this isn't normal.

If it were normal I doubt so many teachers, particularly women in their 30s, would be quitting.

You can't argue with those stats.

I career changed into teaching so I agree it’s no harder than any other job, but here’s the scenario.

I am not at death’s door (and believe me it’s easier to go in than try to set six lessons of work at 6:30am) but I do need a doctor’s appointment, so I have to do an econsult - it’s the only way at my GP. This doesn’t open until 8am by which time I’m already at work, so I pre write it sneakily and paste it into the app during briefing and hope I don’t get comments about being on my phone. I clearly put in the notes that I am a teacher so need a phonecall or appt after 4:30pm.

Later that morning I am teaching and my watch is going nuts. I’m secondary school so don’t have another adult in the room or anyone nearby so that I can just pop out and answer it. After the second phone call I get a text saying the doctor agrees you need to be seen/a phonecall - we’ve tried to contact you but you didn’t answer, please phone in. I can’t do that til after school, by which time all the appointments have gone for that day and they tell me to put my econsult in again to be triaged again the next day, or o can have a routine appointment in 4-6 weeks. And so it goes on, until I feel so unwell that I need to use 111 at the weekend.

Do you see now? In an office job you could step out and take those calls, or you have flexibility to move a meeting or take a late start.

I work in a school and my dental appointments that have been booked in holidays well in advance have all been cancelled over the past 12 months, this is due to my dentist allowing appointments to be booked during holidays abd then taking leave for her own childcare....I get it im a mum too. Im now stuck having to try again as there are no appointments after I finish work, and we have been advised that special leave cannot be granted for not urgent appointments, a check up is deemed non urgent.

After work/holidays are not always easy to accomodate and during the day is a no go

Non contact time. Is 2.5 hours a week. It might be in small segments (though in primary I think it’s often a morning or afternoon session). Unless you live on top of the school (most dont) you can’t get there and back 8n the time and it would actually hurt work life balance because you wouldn’t be working in the travel time and would have to do whatever you could have done outside your hours. Not sure how anyone can leave by 2 when the earliest school finish I experience don 35 years was 2.40 - unless that is her non-contact time…she could be non-contact on a Friday afternoon session.
There are lots of benefits to teaching, but flexibility isn’t one of them - and it seems the benefits are being outweighed by the disadvantages if we look at the recruitment/retention issue.

Can you not call at lunchtime? Although that still might be too late.

@IDontNeedYourShitthis scenario is no different to other jobs.

Usually within a city or county area the school holidays do line up. So it would be unlikely to have time to yourself in the holidays for your own appointments. Taking kids with works for some appointments, but obviously not for all of them. I start teaching at 8.30, so no hope of a same day appointment.

Primary school events are basically all within the school day - I work 4 days a week and still can't go to most things for my kids' school.

It's not the only job which has very little flexibility, but that is definitely one of the things that makes it less appealing to people.

Firstly, even trying to get an appointment is a nightmare - ours has an online system which opens each morning at 8.30. No good to me as the kids come in at 8.40!
You then have to spend 10 mins filling out the online form & answering questions. If you’re lucky you will then be allocated an appointment at a random time e.g 2.30pm which is useless as I’m teaching. We are told to make appointments outside of teaching hours.
Recently had a UTI and fortunately managed to get antibiotics from the pharmacist otherwise I’d have probably left it hoping it would clear up in its own as it’s just a hassle to get a GP appointment. It’s a bit rubbish when you’re expected to put your own health last, especially when internet randoms imply that you’re milking it. So yeah you are BU.

How did that work with the time budget? The only time I’ve experienced that was in an independent but there were other flexibilities that came along with the longer hours.

Totally agree with this!
whilst in the past I took my autistic and learning disabled daughter to various appointments including a smear test (in the room but not in view of what was happening!) dentist for a check up and hospital on a bank holiday to have an infected wound “packed” (ouchy!!) purely as I had no choice, but now I can’t do any of that due to her behaviours and anxiety!

I'm very lucky my school is very good at letting me go to school plays etc but I don't take advantage with other things.

Doctors, I always arrange for later on if I need to go (rare) but I'm fortunate our doctor now has an online booking system.

Dentist, I arrange for the holidays. Again, I'm very lucky to have a dentist that is flexible.

However, I know I am lucky and many others are not.

Im a teacher. Ill book appointments during school hours if needed for myself and my son. Work never challenge this. In fact its such a tough job ill go out of my way to book them during school hours!!

@GlasgowGal2014 wow, where does she work?! I'm amazed that she's allowed to go home for PPAs - most schools don't allow that! Leaving earlier on Fridays is pretty normal, but when do they start if they finish at 2? Before 3 is unusual, but 2 I've never heard of.

Judging by your username and the use of the phrase non-contact, you’re in Scotland? We have much better pay and conditions here than down in England. Heads tend to be (although aren’t always!) more flexible with things like children’s school shows. And leaving to work at home in your non-contact periods (with a couple of caveats) is written into our contracts. I don’t think it’s useful to compare this to teaching in England.

She is non-contact on the final period of a Friday, but she also has non-contact time on two other days and is able to pop home then too. Teachers in Scotland get 12.5 hours non-contact time per week, with 7.5 hours to be used at teachers discretion so maybe it is different here. It certainly feels less flexible than my job where I'm expected to be available 9-5pm everyday and have limited annual leave.

I am a teacher. In my son’s class I was the only one unable to make his sports day last year and the only parent who didn't wave them off for a residential.

This suggests to me that lots of jobs have great flexibility.

Teaching really doesn’t. I can’t just pop out for an hour.

A day for moving house is fairly standard across most professional settings in my experience. The teacher will have set the work for a cover/supply teacher to deliver because it’s a known absence. Christian festivals are in the holidays so not an issue, but yes, teachers (and pupils) of other religions are often allowed time for religious observance (pretty sure it’s not just teachers either). Again, for a known absence they’ll have left detailed work to be delivered. A wedding sould only be in exceptional circumstances and dependent on how the head felt. For a comparison I wasn’t allowed time for my uncle’s funeral as he wasn’t deemed a near enough relation. If they are allowed, again they’ll have left the work.

Not always. You might be seeing a pupil, or catching up with a colleague on an urgent matter or supervising lunch (while this is voluntary additional duty and paid, once you’ve agreed to do it you can’t just not do it to ring the doc instead).

Yes, I am in Scotland. That's interesting to know that Scotland's teachers have better T&C than those in England. To be clear I don't begrudge Scottish teachers flexibility because I know it is a difficult job.

Last time I needed a GP appointment, I stood in a corridor - rather than in my room in front of my form - discussing the personal detail of my health in front of whoever happened to be passing. I can't sit on hold indefinitely at 8am as kids are beginning to mill around and I am expected to give them my attention. Nor can I call during break if I am to make it to the loo and back before break ends. At lunch I am on duty or trying to stuff a sandwich down whilst phoning parents....

Of course, we can attend appointments at whatever time but it creates work for our colleagues and may cost the school cold hard cash if they have to get supply in. Same if we leave to watch our own children - our classes need cover - work we have to set and a physical body to deliver it. It is a standing joke (although it's not funny) in teaching that it's easier just to come in than set cover and miss exam classes where every second literally counts even if dreadfully unwell.

There is little flexibility in teaching without expecting colleagues to step in. The same colleagues who are dealing with the same shit we are. It is a team game.

I have no personal interest in the game but absolutely agree that teachers do have less flexibility. Our GP surgery usually has the latest appointment at 4.30 (don’t ask me why), they don’t give you exact time for a phone call - just morning or afternoon, our previous dentist didn’t work at half terms ☹️, (not sure yet about the new one) some consultants only work shorter hours, our blood taking department is opened until 5 pm and you need some time to get there.

Plus busy times are the same at all schools so the flexibility is minuscule.

Oh come on, did you really just type and post that? You really think primary teachers with a class of 30 children in their care either 9-12 or 1-3.30 for 4.5 days of a week has 'more flexibility than they let on'? In many schools it would be career ending to leave a class unattended to go to the photocopier - how exactly do they have the flexibility to do any more than that?

To restate: I don't think teaching is any more challenging than many jobs. Many jobs are inflexible. I'm responding to a specific post.

Edit for typo

This is a very good point. My colleagues and I are so stretched that any time we need cover results in significant stress in addition to already significant stress.

For example if I pop to speak to a doctor for 20 mins a colleague may not get a toilet break or have to teach two classes at once or miss their own PPA time which means they leave work at 6 rather than 5.30.