To wonder why teachers say they don’t have flexibility - isn’t this the solution?

[Greeao]

I could be being quite naive here but chatting away with friends this afternoon, two of whom
are teachers, they were saying they have no flexibility and ’literally can’t go to the doctor on a work day.’ This was in comparison to other jobs in the group which were office based.

Surely you can go to an appointment at 5pm or 6pm in some doctor surgeries? Then for dentist and non urgent care you’d go in the half terms or holidays?

Similarly I don’t understand the issue with schools plays etc, surely it’s feasible to go to some of these events as not all half terms and holidays are the same for all schools and not every event is in the day time. For instance at our local school play starts at 5pm.

It’s not a goady post, I was just reflecting on my drive home and perhaps I don’t get the industry?!

I have to phone in at 8.30am in the morning. Gate duty. Hallway duty. No phones allowed. By breaktime when I might get 5 mins to call (on hold for 20) all appointments gone.

Guessing you don't live in Wales!

There's an econsult thing, but that's full by 830 on a Monday.

If by some miracle I did get a 5pm.apt on that day, I'd have to leave work around 4 to get to it on time, which isn't always possible.

Every time I make an apt for me or the kids, it always starts with a negotiation:"what have you got?" "Well I can do...."

Dh has had a good few jobs over the w0+ years we've been together. He's always been able to go in late or stay late or finish early etc if we need him to.

We're not allowed to go home during ppa. Mainly because we're usually managing behaviour of kids in other classes at that point. 30 min lunch would be amazing, if there weren't kids in the corridors to be dealt with at the same time.

I was part time once and my timetable had 2 periods, unpaid bit then p5. "But you can go home in the unpaid hours" As if!

I think some schools are more flexible than others, but it all depends on management. My kids are older now, so i don't need to worry about missing stuff, but I'm envious of the :"if we go out Thursday night, I'll just wfh on Friday" friends.

When I was in my 50s, my feet were in such a bad state (from a genetic condition) that I could hardly walk. I required an operation on both feet.

My consultant worked with me to schedule for a time that wouldn't inconvenience the school and would allow me to find care for my mother for my recovery period.

The op was a fortnight before the end of summer term, after the exams had finished and the leavers had gone. All the remaining pupils had moved up a year, so there were fewer classes to cover.

I left work for all my classes.

I was signed off for 5 weeks, but 3 weeks of that time was during the holiday period.

In all my previous time as a teacher - 30 plus years at that time - I'd had 4 days' absence in total.

Before beginning the op, the consultant told me that I could opt to have only one foot done and to come later to have the other done. Not wishing to inconvenience my school, I went ahead with the bilateral procedure so that I wouldn't have to have time off later.

I went back to work for the first day of the new academic year, still having to wear cotton socks and sandals since my it was still impossible for me to wear ordinary footwear.

My HT referred me to Attendance Management.

At my interview, the nurse interviewing me on behalf of the Local Authority said, "Right! Let's look at your file!" She opened a manilla folder and pulled out one sheet of paper. Read it. Looked at me.

"Why are are you here?"

She then asked whether she could see my feet. I thought that she was going to lose her lunch on the spot. (They're still not a pretty sight, but they work.)

I'll give the woman her due: she was obviously outraged on my behalf.

I'm not a teacher but I can see that they don't have much flexibility during term time

But the upside of that is that for full time teachers they still only have that inflexibility for 75% of weekdays, compared with other workers 10% weekday time off.

So a much higher chance of not needing to use flexibility as they have much more leave, but if it is needed within school time, it's harder.

We have a walk in late night GP here at least so that wouldn't be an issue. Teachers also get more flexibility because they can leave earlier than most office workers, if they need to pop somewhere before it shuts, say a shop or the library, which will often have shut by the time office workers finish.

Frequent flexibility but rubbish holiday Vs limited flexibility but lots of holiday is the decision really. Though I feel for those with no flexibility and rubbish holiday the most.

I was a teacher. The working day is longer than you think; many don't leave school till 5 or 6, and many have their own children to look after as well. There is work to do on weekends and half terms as well. Lots of events that require attendance -- parents' evenings, sports days, Harvest festivals, services, school plays/assemblies, inset days. In my experience it is not at all flexible. I don't know why some people are so eager to discredit teachers when it's such an incredibly hard job (hence why I don't do it anymore!)

You can't generalise on this. It very much depends on each school's (and headteacher's) attitude towards being flexible. Some schools allow teaching staff to take planning time at home, but others don't. Timetables are different in different schools. Some schools are more flexible re: medical appointments and important personal events than others are. It varies from school to school.

I can’t get a same day appointment in my area so your telling absolute fibs

I think part of the problem is that teaching has historically been promoted and viewed as a very family friendly career. That may once have been true but is certainly not now.

Last year I had an accident at work in the last week before holidays. The doctor recommended me to take the week off but it was easier to hobble around school on crutches and teach my classes than write lessons (that wouldn’t be taught by the replacement teacher or completed by the students), coordinate tests, etc. There’s not many jobs where it is genuinely easier to turn up than take a legitimate sick leave.

It’s not that people necessarily believe that teaching is the most inflexible job you can have, it’s that it feels like there’s this illusion that teaching with ‘all the holidays’ is a great/flexible/family-friendly career, but the reality is that it’s a terrible career for anyone who has commitments outside of their job.

Yes, you get holidays but even that isn’t great as they are (not flexible) set by others, super expensive and busy with school holiday rates and also filled up with medical appointments you can’t do during term time. Last year I was the only one out of my entire extended family that couldn’t get to my parents 50th wedding anniversary family holiday as it was over a long weekend (with three extra days) and my leave request (for leave without pay!) was rejected.
Teaching (like many other jobs) just simply isn’t a flexible job.

Very rare to get a same day appointment here. I've had to wait an extra 3 weeks for a docs appointment recently as I needed one around school hours.

My kid’s teachers have appointments during the school day and the school gets a sub to cover (primary school). Don’t know how uncommon it is and whether they have to use leave etc.

Because you call or do an online request at 8am. Most appointments are over the phone (at my surgery you will only be seen in person if the nature of your condition requires it). GP then needs to call you back for the consultation, they don’t specify a time, so when they do, you can’t take the call because you’re are teaching a lesson.

Some schools are less flexible allowing staff to appointments in school hours due to the potential cost involved in cover for the lesson - ie external supply via an agency. That’s basically what it boils down to.

"For many, you have to call up at 8.30 (by which time teachers are already in school, prepping and potentially in meetings with other staff)"

Many schools I've taught at staff morning meetings start at 8:10 or 8:20. My current schools registration time is 8:30, so would bee teaching by then ...

Where are these magical, flexible, cooperative GP offices?

Are they friends with the tooth fairy and Easter bunny 👀

It’s not just teachers but TAs tha struggle with this. None of us are allowed phones in classrooms and GPs often don’t let you pick times, it’s all done online. Ditto hospitals.

And the chances of a later appointment are VERY slim

Doctors appointments are hard to get, especially late ones.
Most school events tend to be end of half term
or term on a Thursday or Friday. The timing and specific days are when my school also have events. My children’s school have all events in school time.

To get an appointment at my own GP practice you need to be on the phone 8am to get through which could take 30 minutes or so, waiting in a queue.....
When you get through then there's no guarantee there will be an appointment available. Not much good for a teacher preparing for a day's work during the week is it?

So how are you going to get that fabled appointment? You can’t be on the phone at 8 in the morning.

I was a teacher. There was no flexibility during term times.
But the holidays allowed me to book things like dentist, chiro etc for then.

For transparency up front I’m not a teacher but I think they have very little flexibility.
Just demanding a dr’s appt at a time that suits them is just not available. Surely you are not as naive to think this.
Attending children’s plays/sports days is easy if you have annual leave that you can use when you wish, unfortunately teachers don’t have this luxury.
Yes they get a lot of holidays but during term-time they’re options are extremely limited

My son's friend has parents that are teachers. Miraculously one of them makes it to every school event. We don't! I don't agree there is no flex for teachers. In my experience they make more events than I do.

As for doctor/dentist appointments we do these out of work hours, and our working hours are longer than the school day.

At my DC'S Junior school they did have a evening performance of the plays precisely because many parents were working in the day time- not many SAHP and quite a large proportion of commuters who were nowhere near the locality to pop out.

In some office jobs there is some flexibility, but there are a whole load if jobs thst fall into the category of working fixed hours, with limited flexibility. A lot of these are fairly poor paying in comparrison, without generous holidays or pension. Also, not unionised.

Here is my solution. Just say NO or YES as applcable. NO I am not going into work today, I am sick. YES I will accept that medical appointmeht at the incredibly convenient time.

YES I will cover my teacher colleague but NO I will not do PPA in my own time. If that impacts the children's education, that is on the school/LA/governent for prioritising other things over education and not resourcing schools.

I left secondary teaching 4 years ago after 20ish years. In the last school I worked in we weren’t allowed to have drinks out of mugs except in the staff room, we certainly weren’t allowed to use the toilet in lesson times, and weren’t allowed to use personal mobile phones at any point during the school day. Basically just exactly like the students… except they were allowed to use the bathroom whenever they needed. And to refill water bottles. Only perk left in that place was the holidays! Weirdly I don’t miss even that since I left.

Worked in education for 25+ years. Teachers do take the time needed to go to Dr's and dentists when they need to. No flexibility with holidays though.