Sons Sporting Ambition Thwarted?

[GatheringAllTheMoss]

My son has dreamt of becoming an England player in his team sport (not football) for many years. He's reached county level which is fantastic but he's unlikely to go further. Not through lack of talent but more through the lack of opportunities and the advantages that others have. Out of 40 children at county level the overwhelming majority are at private schools. 10 from one school. You can count the number of state school boys on one hand and one is my son.

Private schools start this sport in year 3, state pupils are lucky to get the chance to play, those that do start in year 7. Private schools play at a higher level e.g. private school will field their B team against sons state school A team. The coaches and facilities are at a higher level too.

At club level my son plays with the men's team not with his age group and there is no development route. I can move him to another club but the chances are high that it will be dominated by the private school boys so my son won't be chosen for the team.

I always appreciated that talent would only take him so far and I was willing to do whatever was needed to get him to that point. Just devastated by the reality of what he faces to succeed and that I never really appreciated this.

There are some really ignorant comments here.

This is not 'fair' because the other boys have earnt it by working hard. It's privilege in action.

I can see this in my local area with sports like hockey - only played at private schools - the local open to all club is mostly private school chidlren, it would be incredibly difficult for a state school child to get anywhere near the amount of hours of play.

my son is very sporty - football - and I despair at the poor level of provision at his secondary even with football which should be easy for them!

Compared to private schools - there are literally less hours in the day given to sport, fewer pitches, less coaches to organise matches - my son has played competitive football for his school a handful of times in 3 years - private schools play weekly around the county at a very high level and inter county as well. My son has only ever played other schools.

People really are very ignorant about how privilege works.

btw there are some private schools which on their own as institutions dominate certain olympic sports.

OP, if it’s rugby, the competition is fierce and ruthless. A family member who was very good got into a national team under seventeens - but that’s as far as he got, and there are many many who, despite playing from an early age, and being keen as mustard, don’t get anything like as far. There are only so many places, and those who make it to the top just have the edge and the drive over their fellow players who are left by the wayside. Whatever sport it is, you are absolutely right when you say he needs ti be playing with his age group and enjoying the sport for its own sake - I would not be happy about my teenage sin playing with the men’s team. My son was good enough to make the first fifteen at school, and enjoyed rugby at university and plays casually now - you really don’t have to be a professional athlete to love and enjoy your sport. A friend’s nephew plays cricket at county level, and all I can say is that they live and breathe cricket, to an extent that might be considered unhealthy. You really do need to be utterly single minded, and if you do that and it’s still it quite enough, it can be heartbreaking.

Honestly it is incredibly depressing that this could be any one of a number of sports - cricket, rugby and hockey all immediately spring to mind. The only sport where private school doesn’t seem to give an immediate advantage is football because it’s so ubiquitous.

There is such a gulf for children in state schools and I don’t think the clubs realise how incredibly well the state school kids are doing. Sadly I’ve seen first hand how the clubs are an extension of the private school - the teachers also coach at the clubs and it’s all about extra practice for the school team.

In many ways it’s a first world problem but given the state of some of these national sports, it’s incredibly sad the governing bodies are not stepping in.

Could you pay for coaching.

Being honest, I can see there are challenges but I don’t think anyone excels in high level sport with a defeatist attitude. He will certainly never make it if he sits in his current club glowering about the private school kids’ privileges and blaming that for not getting anywhere. Why not give it a try - someone has to succeed, and you’ll always wonder if you don’t. Current club will have him back if it doesn’t work out!

And OP what’s the sport? There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here. And I think a lot of us in the same position with state school kids - mine is similar county level and we are totally fighting against the private school privilege.

It could well be cricket.

My DD has been in the county set up for the last few years as a state school pupil, the private school girls definitely have more access to training and competition.

My daughter makes up for that by playing county league cricket in men's/ mixed teams for the competition side but she does lose on on the coaching.

In our county a progamme has been introduced for state school pupils only, but as far as i can tell that is mostly strength and conditioning based as a key difference is actually access to much more sport / gyms etc at many private schools.

Cricket is also part of the Diploma in Sporting Excellence (DISE) programme where approx 60 state school educated kids, who are just below academy level, get access to the ECB facilities and coaches at Loughborough and a Diploma worth 64 UCAS points (this is done between years 12/13). My daughter is doing this at the moment. I know other sports also offer the equivalent programme.

But ultimately, OP, you are right, privilege at private school can't be underestimated in sporting success.

Getting a scholarship is a good idea if (a) we could afford it and (b) the academics were equally as good as his state school. I know of a boy who transferred from private to his state school and is spending time trying to catch up.

You must be well aware that there are plenty of private schools that are better than state schools academically.

You’ll encounter similar issues trying to get into a university team.

Our kids row, you only have to turn up to the national events to see this privilege play out in real life. Just one of the boats belonging to some of the school teams would be worth more than all of the boats belonging to our community club! We punch above our weight, but having your own boating lake, rowing as an option at school with land training to match, and top-of-the-range boats can be hard to overcome. It's obtuse and offensive to imply otherwise.

We have just bought our eldest her own scull so that it can be set up for her and be the right weight bracket etc...it doesn't mean she will immediately start winning but it will help. We will do the same for the next when he gets to her level.

But that in itself is a huge privilege that many don't have. Ours are already doing better than a lot of their peers because they have 2 parents with flexible enough lives and finances to run them around the country every weekend, train 5 times a week, buy the kit, pay the fees, help with nutrition etc.

Reminds me of this: www.facebook.com/onearunpandit/videos/when-privilege-pretends-to-be-hard-work-in-the-grand-halls-of-the-oxford-union-y/25026583583604969/

Yes this is what I was thinking. The independent school my daughter is at on a sports scholarship is far better academically than any of our local state options (which is the original reason she was going, the sports scholarship was an added bonus!)

I think it’s really tricky. Our son is state school and loves things like Rugby and Cricket - both of which aren’t really played and if they are it’s not until secondary.

I think the best you can do is maybe get him playing at two clubs to get the hours in, holiday camps which focus on the sport etc. speak to the coaches he has - if they think he is that good they will show you the path.

I agree with your frustration - private schools just have a focus on spirt that state schools don’t and I never understood why!

That's my experience too the parents are coaches. And able to put in 5 / 10 mins into tiny tots in a way that people paying coaches by the hour just can't

Even look at International Stars, Andy Murray, Mum Judy top coach, she spoke about having the boys play table tennis on the kitchen table with cereal boxes for a net! Lots of footballers have had Dad or Uncles play at top level.

My friends daughter was excellent at a niche sport. She was ranked in the top two nationally in her age group. They used to travel miles, often hundreds of miles, for weekend competitions, sometimes against international players. She told me about a competitor from the US who turned up at one prestigious venue with a whole posse including a trainer, a sports psychologist, a representative of her sponsorship deal as well as her parents. The child was dressed head to toe in logged outfits and her equipment was the same! It is a sport where successful participants can potentially earn millions and clearly the child’s parents had spotted her ability and decided to invest in her future.

The trouble is @GatheringAllTheMoss , what would you do about it? State education is not even managing to educate children in basic academics (16% of adults are functionally illiterate) . They can hardly siphon off money for more sports coaching without affecting other teaching. Private schools have significantly longer days and Saturday school, the state in most cases can't match the time they have available.

What you can do is look hard for a scholarship for your son, if he is going to be one of the best he will get one. Apart from that persist with every bit of training on offer, but also other fitness. There are council owned gyms and swimming pools he can use, and running is free. From memory, at their independent school my children did 2 hours sport every afternoon. Someone who finishes school at around 3.00on could do that 2 hours after school.

@GatheringAllTheMoss if your child is already at county level, that’s the development route. When a child has reached county, that is where they then progress from.

I do have experience of a child in the county system (who also happens to play in an adult club team) and there is a mix of state and privately educated children (there’s actually more state educated children than private on their current team). They all train hard, and team places are awarded on merit. In addition to that, I know that cricket offers some opportunities to state educated children only. The ECB, MCC and counties offer some funding, training and competitions to state educated children only. Private school pupils are specifically excluded from some of these initiatives.

If any child has enough talent and dedication, they are able to progress.

If it’s rugby, that’s a sport, which costs peanuts. My dh took my dd twice weekly from ages about 5-11. More serious clubs ramped up to 3 times weekly, still in primary school. Dd stopped when it was no longer mixed teams as she wasn’t that into it. But I know someone, whose dd got into it at about 8 and excelled, also a state school kid.

I agree that some sports are inaccessible and it’s very unfair, but rugby isn’t one of them. We also donated old boots and kit and the club helped any kids, who couldn’t afford that.

A lot of homegrown* footballers in this country notably came from poorer backgrounds, some dependent on food banks as kids. Patrick Bamford has actually spoken about how being privately educated made him an outlier.

*it's very much more so for many players from South America

Firstly the chances of making it to national level in any sport, let alone a team sport, are very very low. Secondly whilst those at PS will be doing much more sport from a young age there is still plenty of opportunity within local clubs. It needs to be about a club because most state schools have a terrible sport provision. I’m guessing this is either hockey or rugby? Likely rugby. Those that are good often get scholarships at sixth form for PS.

As others have said though it’s not just about what’s done at training or at school it’s about going over and above eg my DS and his mates were always in the gym, DS used to go off to the local pitch and practice kicking etc. Does your son do this? A triangle of coach, parent and child is needed, all have to be 110% committed and driven. Look at Adam Peaty. Yes some will get an advantage for having a parent who’s previously played eg George Ford but they still have to make the cut.

The thing is there will be a great many kids and parents who put their all into their sport and still don’t make it.

My nephews played county - rugby and soccer. State school. They are now in their 20s and barely touch a ball.

My friend’s son dreamed of being a professional basketball player. Private school. Many academies and extra training. Never plays now.

And while being ambitious is great, it can also make for superiority complex kids. One injury can mean they are out for months. Others reach their potential early and are overtaken by others.
Others are pushed too hard and drop out, and others can’t take losing and are emotional messes.

Play sport. Enjoy sport. That is all that ultimately matters.

It seems you have a bee in your bonnet about private school rather then reflecting on what your son can do to improve and find a development pathway. There is always going to be someone in life that has had an easier ride of it. That's life. Its not about focusing on that being unfair and focusing on what you (or your son in this case) can do to further themselves and own potential. Elite sport is cut throat though and can change in a blink of an eye so it's always worth a back up plan.

DS1 plays rugby we go to a local club who have development routes into the bigger clubs if he wants to go down that route - most of the team are not private school backgrounds.

This is just the reality of sport. A lot is about opportunities. Sometimes it's money, but location is just as important. There are sports where, if you happen to live in the wrong part of the country, or even the wrong country altogether, your chances of getting to the top are slim. Happening to have parents who like sports is big too - if your parents don't want to shlep you around to games, you may be out of luck in a lot of sports. (Similarly, parents that don't support their kids in music will find that it is unlikely that they produce young adults who are musicians...)

Something to consider is that people are not usually really talented in only one sport. Sporting talent is broader than that, and it's often really possible to switch streams. So maybe he would find better opportunities in another sport. Some sports typically have a later start, some may not even have teams for children. Maybe look at sports being more newly developed where you live.

This sounds like the rugby pathway in Ireland - it’s difficult but not impossible if you are not from the ‘right’ school.

It’s unfair but if he is exceptional then this will be spotted

Politicians in the UK don't have to be wealthy, it's not like the US.
Not knowing about sports is the same with all activities - there would be thousands more Grand Masters if all the children living in poverty were introduced to chess. We would have cracked many illnesses long ago if the same children had been educated.
As it stands, until very recently, almost all advancements were made by persons (mostly men) born to privilege.