To think Queen Elizabeth's legacy is going to be seriously harmed by this?

[Gymnopedie]

I mean I doubt he bounded into the palace shouting 'you'll never guess what I did last week'. He will massively have played down the extent of his friendship with Epstein and may even at times have lied about where he was when he was away. It seems his protection officers have some serious questions to answer around this. I doubt anyone in the RF had anything like the full picture. But QE stood by him and I can't see her coming out of this well.

Woman's fault again then...

How he funded the £12 million settlement may prove problematic for her legacy.

I think a head of state does bear some responsibility if they allow certain behaviour to go unchecked, or if they make unwise appointments to positions of power. Woman or not.

Such a lazy reply 🙄

YANBU OP

The Queen had a responsibility to know exactly what she was bailing him out of.

And yes @Catza I'd say the same if the late Queen had a penis...

Of course she knew, as did the rest of the RF. Queen Elizabeth would have been privy to everything including her son’s paedophilia and rapey tendencies. She would have permitted it because they of course are above everyone else.

The fawning over the late queen has to stop now we all know what she was trying to hide.

The Queen performed her duties really well for nearly 70 years. Over that time she did some great things for her country. I think she was guilty of accepting her son's assurances at face value, but I think we should all be clear this is all down to AMW and no-one else. He has done serious damage to the Royal Family and it might be the start of the end. I do think that AMW is only the start of the problem. There will be many other powerful men involved in these horrific sexual abuse and it is of course notable that the only person outside of Epstein who has been convicted is a woman. There are I suspect many guilty men still walking amongst us.

As much as I was to see these disgusting men locked away for life - I don't want to see it used as a reason to get rid of the monarchy as head of state. Who else could do it? Have an elected one and you'll have Nigel Farage or Rupert Lowe before you can blink.

What legacy? The woman can't be blamed for the idiocy of her youngest son.

Unfortunately the RF are an anachronism and always have been.

I think it will be viewed as the one mistake by the Queen against the many things that her reign will be positively viewed as.

What was positive about her reign? Getting Charles to marry a woman he disliked and subsequently psychologically abused? Prince Andrew’s antics? First class ribbon cutting?

Yes. I agree. And i think it's a bit sad.

Even though i would not describe myself as a royalist, i have fondness for QEII and when people say 'the Queen' that's who i think of. Not camila. I was kid when Diana married Charles and i was preg with my 3rd when she died. I remember the pressure on QE to return to london and her agreeing and all that hoo har. The whole soap opera. She always carried herself with dignity and the Andrew business and the way she seemed to blindly protect him is a nasty stain on an otherwise fairly faultless performance. Which is quite something considering how many years she did it.

If it’s proven she knew it all then you’re right.

I suspect that she was fed a tiny portion of the truth and she believed it because she loved him and didn’t want to see how rotten he is. My experience of cheaters and liars is that they only admit to what you know and will change their story as more emerges.

I think that there will be more revelations about him and his ex.

The Queen has spent years protecting him. I respect King Charles's approach.

What is this legacy? Is cancer cured? Did she step in to help stop DV? Reform the Police force? She certainly made sure her family got richer but perhaps someone has a list of positives she brought in from her Coronation to her death?

Had a fair few winning racehorses, grifted quite a bit, made sure the finances were always in her favour.

That's Edward, otherwise I agree with you.

She is lucky she died when she did.

As for the usual lazy comments about ‘blaming women’. If the late queen didn’t want to be held accountable she could have easily decided not to give Andrew money to pay off a survivor.

Sorry about that. I thought that Andrew was the youngest so got away with more - and the Household staff hid the excesses from his mother.

I think it was more a case of she didn't like being told about his bad behaviour. Lots of accounts coming out of when issues were raised she batted them away. I am sure more is going to come out about this especially if all the files from when he was trade envoy are released and the reports of the RPO's.

She was too old for the job for a long time and seemingly incapable of making difficult decisions.

So someone that cannot be voted out is preferable to someone that can be?

It’s because of sheer accident of birth that King Andrew isn’t the unelected head of the British state.

Her racism was a top legacy ruiner for me

I think she had a massive blind spot and believed her son unresevedly. She was very old and ill at the end and understandably wanted to make problems "go away" when she knew she was dying.

In all honesty, I caught myself playing a bit of a devil's advocate over my lunch break. If you step away from queen as a queen, and think of her as a mother, is there anything you wouldn't do for your child, were it in your power. Then I realised rape is my line in the sand. I'd probably do the patio-and-alibi for my child in case of murder, but this is where I draw my line. But would that have been her line? I don't know. I'm not defending what she did/didn't do, that's another kettle of fish, and I'd happily watch HIM thrown in the cell with the key tossed away. Playing the devil's advocate, where would you stop for your child?

Yes. Ask any of the teenagers and young adults and you got your answer re the royal family.... My fil who is a firm royalist is now questioning it... however Trump in charge....what could be put in place instead......I miss the queen..the proper queen..queen Elizabeth as she was stable and been there so long but what she been hiding....