To think Queen Elizabeth's legacy is going to be seriously harmed by this?

[Gymnopedie]

I mean I doubt he bounded into the palace shouting 'you'll never guess what I did last week'. He will massively have played down the extent of his friendship with Epstein and may even at times have lied about where he was when he was away. It seems his protection officers have some serious questions to answer around this. I doubt anyone in the RF had anything like the full picture. But QE stood by him and I can't see her coming out of this well.

Had Charles suffered a scuba diving accident, you'd have had Andrew. That's no kind of argument at all.

In fact Charles thought so highly of van der Post that he is one of William’s godfathers.

well clearly Philip wasn't his sisters was he? and he served in the British navy during the war so clearly he wasn't a huge fan of the Nazis.

Yes, actually, it is. I don't know how much more needs to be said. Here is an adult male (allegedly) committing a crime and instead of focusing on that, the poster choses to blame his mother.
It's absurd that we are even doing that. I don't know what else is to be said on the subject...

I hope some of you don’t have kids who turn out to be wrong uns.

They didn't actually have team meetings with her.

I dont think she is to blame. I think its potentially another an interesting picture into the nature vs nurture aspect of a psychopath though.
In an upbringing intended and rigidly planned to teach morals and empathy, out of the 4 children it was the one most doted on who developed those traits.

nobody is saying she is to blame that her son is a bad 'un.
They are saying that when she knew - latest when she fronted the 12 million quid - she should have come clean and cut him and his family loose.

I hope not too - but if it happens, I solemnly swear not to pay £12m in hush money to the trafficked woman my son used and discarded 👍

I think she was largely indifferent towards her children. Had them as a duty. She kept him close because she thought that would make people look the other way when he started going 'to parties'.

They are all like that. The ultimate nepo babies with no redeeming qualities. Andrew is the patsy because he got caught. It’s no coincidence that Charles was best friends with Jimmy Saville and his favourite uncle was also a horrific satanic child abuser. I just don’t get the pearl clutching for this horrible, evil family. What more do they have to do? Diana tried in fairness. The only decent one of the entire, rotten lot.

I dont think they operate like normal families. They only see each other by appointment and live in separate wings . Its not like they have dinner together and discuss their day.

So many mums on here who would protect their ‘little prince’ see it daily on MN

She was trying to keep up the illusion of propriety to keep their position and money safe. She was not that interested in her children

@Catza

If what you took from my OP was that I was blaming the Queen for what Andrew did, you read it wrong. That was all on him. My thread is about how she reacted to what he did and to what she knew of what he did. And if it turns out that she shielded him, that she knew what he was doing and had it hushed up, or was in any other way complicit, then yes that is her fault and yes I would blame her.

Yes , Liz and Phil .
But really we don't know what their values were.

If we accept that the head of state can be a woman (and we should) , we can't then play the card "don't blame the woman". Can't have it both ways

Harry is the only likeable one of the cunts

I don't know how much the Queen knew , I'm very close to my family but only know what they choose to tell me about what they're doing. How many people live with their partners and have no idea that they are being cheated on?
But her paying VG off should have made her ask more questions.

They all knew. Been warning off journalists like Andrew Lownie gor years with legal threats. Bring on the Republic!!

There’s a difference between loving your kids wherever they do because you are their mum and covering up for them, isn’t there? And in this case that’s complicated by an additional layer of protecting The Firm at whatever cost.

It will not be a surprise if it turns out the family, including the Queen, knew exactly was Andrew was. At the bare minimum she paid of a trafficked rape victim without bothering to ask any questions.

Andrew alone is guilty for any crimes that he committed but I’m not convinced bed he’s the one that ruined her legacy. She did that.

Let's also remember that Philip's mother spent quite a lot of WW2 saving the lives of Jews, and was declared Righteous Among the Nations for it.

Your blessed Diana was also friends with J Savile.

This was due to a combination of factors. She was quite marketable as a queen in the mid 20th century and became essentially a global brand, a living relict from the old world, where Britain was a powerful empire but also modern as she was a female monarch. The fact that she wasn't actually born into her role but ascended to the throne due to her uncle's scandals and her father's early death helped frame her as a dutiful, calm and mild mannered monarch. Being nice to look at didn't hurt either. Her coronation was one of the first major global televised events, turning her into a household presence and strengthening the monarchy’s accessibility. My grandparents lived in another country and bought their first ever TV to watch the coronation.

She certainly is an important figure in history but was fallible like all people.

The infantilising of a woman renowned for her steeliness and duty above all else would be hilarious were it not for the fact that as head of state, she would have been fully appraised of the situation regarding her beloved Randy Andy, long famed for being a greedy, obnoxious entitled pig, when it came to negotiating a 12 million quid payment.

In her position why would anyone pay that amount of money to a blind stranger