To think Queen Elizabeth's legacy is going to be seriously harmed by this?

[Gymnopedie]

I mean I doubt he bounded into the palace shouting 'you'll never guess what I did last week'. He will massively have played down the extent of his friendship with Epstein and may even at times have lied about where he was when he was away. It seems his protection officers have some serious questions to answer around this. I doubt anyone in the RF had anything like the full picture. But QE stood by him and I can't see her coming out of this well.

YANBU.

If she even had a slightest whiff of a rat, she should have hired a few private investigators to get to the bottom of matters.

It's inconceivable that she wasn't aware of the many whispers there were about his conduct as trade envoy. It's inconceivable that she didn't ask any questions about the sale of the house she had given him. She should have verified all the answers to any questions she asked. If people were afraid to approach her with the truth then that's a huge issue too.

The payoff that kept AMW from testifying in a NY court was a clear sign that she had no interest at all in anything but sticking a bejeweled middle finger in the air at all that is decent and lawful.

She saved three Jews, sheltering them in her home. This is why she received the Righteous Among the Nations recognition.

I don't want to downplay her bravery here. Her home was close to Gestapo HQ. Betrayal or a routine search would have meant death for her and probably torture too.

Why do you believe their education was planned with morals and empathy in mind?

Yes since when? I doubt their education was about anything of the sort! I think the only one who can even fake empathy is Charles. Anne is a pretty brusque woman and Edward couldn't even answer a simple question off the cuff without making a hash of it.

With the highly intelligent conspiracy theories around, is the queen even his mother?

You would cover for your child murdering somebody but not for raping them?

She knew it was bad enough to cough up 12 million to pay off somebody "he never met"

Yes, definitely. Covering up Mountbatten's probable abuse too.

That's unfair imo. She was closer to Edward & the Unmentionable because they were born when she'd settled into her job. I thunk she ended up close to Anne too.

'Being nice to look at didn't hurt either.'

• I think it's fair to say Elizabeth & Margaret both had a halo effect from being royal. I don't think they would have been seen as particularly notable looking if they hadn't been royal. Imo an error of the crown was that they cast actresses who were excellent but arguably more Hollywood-looking than either Elizabeth or Margaret were.

Hmm...I don't think Princess Anne is mean. I agree she can seem brusque but she's also done a lot of productive charity work for Save The Children (also Riding For The Disabled).

She paid of the victims with £12 million didn’t she? Of course she knew.

I don't think that's true. I think she did care about them - not that this makes her a good person.

ME royalty - which country? Saudi? Dubai?

Man has sex with younger woman,

• they weren't just younger women (underage teen girls), they were trafficked. They could not meaningfully consent.

'the females were over the age of consent in this country. Agree it is unpleasant and exploitative'

• 'females' - are you a man, by any chance?

'Unpleasant and exploitative' - understatement! They were enslaved, they couldn't meaningfully consent.

emotionally stunted, calculating and cold as a witch’s tit

• I think that's a bit much. I do think she was very ruthless.

What racism?

I imagine the poster is referring to the Queen carving out a legal exemption for herself so she didn't have to employ people of colour even after equality legislation.

If this view is widespread there’s a huge risk to QE2’s legacy. Like all of us, her values were shaped in her early adult life, her formative years, and I her view of what is right and wrong for a single man may have been different from current the mainstream views. The funding of the settlement to VG , whilst AMW continued to maintain he didn’t remember her was a huge mistake. If he had been honest, expressed genuine contrition and paid the compensation for VG to use to address the abuse of women (as she said she intended to) he would have come through this far better. I suppose none of us know how much QE2 condoned any of this but it doesn’t look good.

Yep. She was a nasty, enabling piece of shit.

I don’t know… I thought she took an unreasonable long time to act on Andrew when V Giuffre revelations came out. It was obvious she was at best trying to believe her favourite child, or at worst, trying to wait the scandal out. I bet she was the one who convinced Andrew to pay the 12 million, because in Andrew’s mind… he never met the woman.

It has not changed my perception of her, I never thought she was a perfectly nice person. She was good as a queen but as a human being… not exactly a pilar of compassion and empathy at all.

Would our security services not be aware of Andrews proclivities & had a word with her Maj.QE or are they above or immune from surveillance?

Yup… Mother opts to not hang, draw & quarter wayward son…so all her fault 🙄

By that logic every crime ever committed is the Mother’s fault… one way or tother…

Actually, 💭 thinking about it if my DC were going to commit a crime would hope it be an Ocean’s 11 type escapade… AMB just sleazy and stupid.

She wasn't a doddering 82 year old though. She was a fit and healthy 82 year old, with no sign of cognitive decline.

My mum is nearly 84, she would absolutely be able to understand this sort of information. Many people in their 80s can deal with complex information.

I don't believe she would have paid out millions of pounds without understanding what she was doing.