To think Queen Elizabeth's legacy is going to be seriously harmed by this?

[Gymnopedie]

I mean I doubt he bounded into the palace shouting 'you'll never guess what I did last week'. He will massively have played down the extent of his friendship with Epstein and may even at times have lied about where he was when he was away. It seems his protection officers have some serious questions to answer around this. I doubt anyone in the RF had anything like the full picture. But QE stood by him and I can't see her coming out of this well.

Exactly. Her fans used to tell us how sharp she was, that she ran a tight ship etc, even as she got older. Now as people are rightfully pointing out that she did wrong and enabled her sex predator son, all of a sudden she was a doddering old lady, all vulnerable, incapable of understanding and clueless as to what was going on. How convenient.

I can understand a mother loving her child unconditionally. What I can't reconcile is a mother, who is Head of State, allowing him to become an envoy, to represent Britain on an international stage, where he has access to all kinds of sensitive information.

TLQ ought to have reeled A in years ago - the word 'no' should have been used far more often, instead of this endless indulgence which has resulted in the arrogant arse that is AMW! A responsible H of S, who still loved her son should have removed him from any kind of public office, given him an income so that he and SF weren't grifting and taking money from the likes of Epstein. She ought to have separated him from any situation where he had value to those who wanted to exploit his arrogance, stupidity and lack of morality.
I don't think he's a paedophile - I could well believe that Epstein hid much of his depravity because AMW was a useful idiot. I could well believe that AMW didn't look too closely at who those girls were because he was arrogant.
I remember hearing years ago that advisers tried to warn the Queen that A needed to be reeled back in, but it fell on deaf ears.

I have no sympathy for AMW - he deserves everything he gets, but while all the focus is on him (you'd think he was Epstein's only friend from the coverage), who else are we missing?

Not as though she was going to step down tho. Prob not a conversation that happened v.often if at all and no one to vote her out

Her achievement was to make herself and her family even richer.
The pandora papers revealed the millions offshore, some cash invested in companies actively exploiting her poorer subjects.
And the lobbying of government ministers by her and Charles to secure tax advantages for their vast estates.
And choosing to pay that 12 million to bail out her favourite son.
i think support for this family is falling away.
Read the book Entitled, look at Republic website. Plenty more unsavoury information there.

That's the downside of living a life of privileges paid for by the tax payer, and pretending you are an elite "representing" the plebes, and that the entire family is above the rest of us - by marriage if must be, until having children make you part of the family.

If you push it too far, the way Andrew seems to have done (Harry aside, the others famously have questionable lifestyles but at least it seems to stay among consenting adults), the crash will be violent.

The "Royal Family" are all awful, always have been. Diana was abused, treated like a disposable brood mare while Charlie had Camilla as his bit on the side the whole time, now she's queen. Ugh. Duke of Edinburgh played away, liz tolerated it. They've all shown themselves to be racists one way or another, just a bunch of not very clever talentless pointless people whose privilege and sense of entitlement knows no bounds. Not a shred of moral fibre amongst them. Why the rest of us tolerate them is beyond me. At least Trump, and all the other awful Presidents, get voted out eventually and ordinary people don't have to pay for everything their awful families.

You could have a president like Ireland or Germany where they specifically are not linked to any political decision making - which correctly is the role of parliament - but who's job is to represent the country.

I still can't get over grown ups bowing and scraping to children. If you grow up like that you are going to have a massive sense of entitlement. Wish they would all just go away.

Unfortunately there are many bad presidents who dont get voted out at the end of four or so years - Mugabe, Putin, Bolsonara etc and I can't imagine Trump going without a fight he is already amassing his armies (ICE plus the judiciary).

A PP said if AMW and SF had given loads of money by TLQ then they wouldn't be out after cash but there are some people who are always on the scrounge for a few bob if it is offered and they are probably amongst them.

Yesterday when Charles spoke about Service and Duty it appeared an obvious attempt to align the family with these characteristics. Issue is they are self serving and lead largely indulgent lives of excess funded by struggling taxpayers.

I’ve just read up on that. Disgusting.

Re: the Queen paying off VG in 2022 and being seemingly incurious about the ins and outs of what happened.

The Queen must've been well aware that Andrew was a magnet for women his whole life and for most of his life he's been a single man and a prince, which is catnip to a lot of women. He was living in Buckingham Palace for years after his divorce and according to a royal protection officer, who has spoken publicly, there was a stream of women coming in and out of his apartment every single night and the Queen surely knew about that. She also knew that Prince Philip had other women on the side, but she was of a generation that turned a blind eye to that kind of thing, because it had ALWAYS gone on in upper class society. Everyone had affairs and no one spoke about it - it's just the way it was. He had an affair with Fergie's mother FGS and was allowed to ride in a carriage with her on Andrew and Fergie's wedding day!!

So with all that in mind, I suspect that the Queen didn't much care whether Andrew had had sex with VG or not. VG herself was irrelevant and just another in a very long line who had had sex with Andrew. The only difference between her and the rest was that she was claiming she was trafficked to the UK for that purpose and she had a photo that showed herself with him. But remember that Andrew, at that time, was claiming the photo was fake and denying having ever met her and I suspect that the Queen was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. I also suspect that the Queen didn't really care whether he'd met her or had sex with her or not, she just wanted the whole thing to go away and not overshadow the celebrations for her Platinum Jubilee. I remember the press saying as much at the time.

@Whyhaveibeencutoutofmamsnot

“Unfortunately there are many bad presidents who dont get voted out at the end of four or so years - Mugabe, Putin, Bolsonara etc and I can't imagine Trump going without a fight he is already amassing his armies (ICE plus the judiciary).”

All your examples are executive presidents. Completely irrelevant. The UK would have a figurehead president.

For goodness sake learn the difference between a figurehead president and an executive one.

This point has to be corrected daily on here .

If you are ignorant of the difference , now you know .
If you knew the difference , stop spreading misinformation.

Quite. To people who always say ' President Blair' he was the executive arm of government ( like Trump etc) under a Monarchy. As was Johnson. The Queen did nothing and could do nothing about Johnsons proroguing of Parliament. A ' commoner' took Johnsons government to judicial review and the courts decided. They are there to provide the bling and because they are desperate to be there.

Maybe if you look at the Queen being more like a CEO of a business that funded AMW’s lifestyle and effectively enabled his activities over decades then the Queen should have had more accountability. £12M doesn't seem like enough given the billions they have.

That is what they like to couch themselves as when it suits them but when it turns out they turned a blind eye to potential abuse on their own premises they are an innocent family who don't see each other that often and had now way of knowing what was going on.

Yes, miss.
Unfortunately bad figurehead presidents have taken over as those of us not new out of school can remember.
I am not over fond of many of the royals but I do suspect that their presence brings in a lot of trade and tourism to the country. Who would go to places like Sandringham, Balmoral and Windsor if it wasn't for the presence of royalty.

Is that meant to close down any discussion, the 'racist' accusation? A lazy comment.

The tourist argument was debunked years go
The powers of a figurehead president are limited . Examples all over Europe of this

But I’m sure you know that which is why you use Russia and South America for your examples

Miss, is belarus in Europe

It should be pointed out that Epstein notwithstanding and long before that Andrew was involved in plenty of dodgy deals and bad behaviour that the Queen would certainly have known about but indulged.

Brilliant comment, if I may say so!

As I’ve put on another post about this subject, my now deceased MIL liked to refer to guys with tendencies like Andrew or even just plain philanderers like Boris J as ‘just naughty boys’ - I think many ( not all) an older women of the queens era just brushed away stuff as ‘boys will be boys’

Sandringham and Balmoral are private, but I'd imagine if tourists could go into Buckingham Palace and Windsor all year round and see all the state rooms, and all of the priceless treasures the Royals are hoarding for themselves, absolutely millions every year.

But you can't go to Sandringham or Balmoral except to peer at the gates. Those places are private homes. Windsor? Not sure on that. Yes visitors can go but is the taxpayer funding it? Certainly the Police and council are objecting to keep paying for Royal events there.