Teachers should have to follow the same rules

[RhaenysRocks]

Just seen yet another fb post about a schools banning skirts. Cue lots of comments about teachers shouldn't be allowed to wear them then either. Ditto make up, nail varnish etc. AIBU to think this just shows how ridiculously petty and narrow minded many adults are and that if that's the message coming from home then it's not surprising the behaviour in schools is so poor?

This isn't a debate about if skirts / make up should or shouldn't be allowed but the level of thinking that ends up with those comments. Can adults really not appreciate the difference between professional, qualified adults having latitude in what they wear (and many schools are actually very strict about dress code for staff) and children following a uniform code they've agreed to when they join?
So, YABU it's a valid comment
YANBU It shows a lack of maturity and thinking skills in parents that contributes to discipline issues in school.

It's another way of getting money out of us. They don't want to teach young people how to express themselves the first thing they learn is control. There is a reason why the baby boomers did so well because they fucked the establishment off

Again, we've wandered from my original OP about the quality of thinking that puts 'teachers should do x too' as their argument. Children are not adults. They do not react and use their judgement in the same way. They put far more store in what their peers think than the average adult. Schools have a dynamic that is completely different to a bunch of adults in a workplace. Whenever I see sad face Daily Mail stories about a child being 'victimised' for not following the rules the comments are so often dominated by people who clearly cannot think beyond the context of one student to look at a bigger picture.

This isn't about the rights and wrongs of uniform or skirts or make up. I'm glad the poll seems to suggest most agree with my OP but if the discussion does continue to focus on the specifics of uniform or not, I'll gracefully bow out. Its been a really interesting thread and I thank those that have contributed.

The DM is very pro uniforms, of course.

I think many people do feel quite frustrated with how petty schools are about uniforms, and that drives petty responses such as 'teachers should do x too'.

Schools really don't help themselves because they waste so much energy and time starting pointless arguments with students and families.

I wish schools focused more on what really matters.

There is a very wide range of opinion of what is professional attire for the workplace. At a record company my boss would wear a track suit, t-shirt and jeans were ok for me. However, I was once sent home from a bank in London for wearing a brown suit. White shirt, tie and dark suit was required.

Teachers are adults children are children anyone with any intelligence would know the difference, but no surprises there

There should be some things that teachers should not wear, but that does not make them the same as pupils dress code requirements.

I bet some of the complaining parents are those who think basic standards when behind the wheel of a car and other rules should not apply to them.

Bearbookagainandagain · Today 17:18
I disagree with you and that comment. Children don't have a choice regarding uniform, they don't "sign up for it". It's a ridiculous and backward tradition that's being pushed by schools purely for the power and control it gives them over children.

This is a stupid, ignorant comment. Pulling kids up over uniform isn't a power trip, it's a tedious pain in the arse, day after fucking day. Why do we do it? Because we are basically made to. It's part of our job to uphold school policies. I don't give the tiniest shit about what colour socks a child is wearing or whether they have non-stud earrings in. You are displaying a total an utter lack of understanding of why teachers are teachers.

I would happily introduce a UK-wide ban on school uniform. You know why schools don't ditch uniform? Because it's marketing and they don't want to look like the scruffy school. Who are they marketing to? Parents. Parents who think 'Ooh - how smart those students at St Griswold's School look! They must all be really well-behaved.' And post proud photos of their dc in the uniform on the first day of Year 7. And then spend Y8 to Y11 moaning about their dc getting behaviour points for breaking the uniform rules.

What this thread once again highlights to en is that I wish people who have never worked in a school would spend a single day in one. Seeing how it operates, seeing how the rules are really applied, seeing how schools actually supply uniform to many kids who can’t afford it, seeing how we hand out endless equipment to kids whose parents haven’t made sure they have it, seeing how we work our arses off to support and listen to and educate children, how we don’t have the time or emotional resources or desire to start fights with parents, yet too often are on the receiving end of rudeness and even abuse from parents, and then have to go into the classroom and smile and teach, and keep children safe. They’d see that the hours teachers put in, and the pressure we face, would make it insane to stay in the profession just for some kind of power trip, and that in fact, most of us really, really care about the kids we teach, love them even. I genuinely wish people could see it, just for one day. The education system is flawed and some schools get it wrong, but my god, most of us are trying desperately to get it right.

Amen to all of that. Do people honestly think we would go into and stay in teaching just so that we can be mean to children? Why? The stellar pay? The high status and societal respect? The perks and swanky workplaces? <hollow laugh>. We do it because we like kids and want to teach them stuff that we like and consider important. It's not our fault that the system is broken and full of petty rules instead of sensible ones.

Think we worked for the same one! The Head would tell off staff caught not wearing their blazer.

I do think it's petty and immature to say all the same rules have to apply to staff. All of them, really? Should staff be in the same school uniform as the children? Does that mean we get a full lunch break too 😂

That said, I do try and show some consistency in how I dress. I never wore hoops to school, mostly avoided earrings tbh because I had to enforce the uniform rule against them. If I wear a skirt, it's at least knee length. However I did used to have my nails done pre baby - though I was never enforcing a uniform rule for similar reasons.

As PP said, so funny when people say a two week mid term holiday is educational. I met someone who was claiming her child's holiday meant "(they) learn more going abroad than they do in school". Went to the UAE 😂

Teachers aren’t going to roll them up though are they?

I think it shouldn't be necessary to follow the same rules as a teacher, but I know my cohort would have blown up and rebelled if told you can't dye your hair & a teacher telling you that has pink hair. It's about mixed messages and causing conflict.

Its not just schools though. My employer has a no visible tattoos or unnatural hair colour policy. It's due to one staff member who was doing both and they thought it unprofessional. On the other hand, the new receptionist has a tattoo sleeve (just added to it) on display & is not censured because they can't afford to lose her. Another colleague is seeing clients and business contacts with hair that looks like they rolled out of bed and didn't think to brush it, just ripped it back into some kind of birds nest, no make up, or accessories. This same person publicly complained I didn't look professional seeing clients in what I wear. We have a uniform, but two years in, I don't have one yet. I dress professionally, but admittedly my tops are getting a bit worn as I refuse to buy more. Clients don't even notice tbh.

Anyway, my point is, no one is ever happy, everyone is hypocritical. It's a good lesson to learn.

Absolutely 🙏🏼 also, sometimes we have to enforce rules we don't agree with because it's part of our job for students to have consistency (/there's top-down pressure from SLT, from Ofsted, etc etc).

I also think it's silly to have a school rule that's not enforced consistently. Unfair to the students who are sanctioned for it. Maybe just get rid of the rule if it can't be applied across the board? I'd much rather spend my time at work planning and teaching and having interesting conversations with the kids.

Lastly, I don't remember any of this being a thing when I was in school. The teachers didn't have pink hair, but they absolutely wore cardigans. It was strict rules like no make up, only one gold/silver stud in each ear and you couldn't go to the toilet between or during lessons. Effectively that meant don't broach those rules so obviously that you get caught and if you were caught,.you didn't have a leg to stand on.

When I was at school we wore kilts which was harder to roll up in the 90's. No matter how hard they tried they couldn't roll it to their bottom. School skirts today look cheap, flimsy and easy to roll up. Personally a pair of black trousers would be more comfortable.

Totally agree. Rules that seem petty to parents - like requiring that pupils bring a pen and pencil to lessons, are quiet in the corridors etc - are vital parts of pedagogy. The disruption of several pupils without writing implements derail a lesson, and that is often the intention. Non-teachers do not understand this. It's as if they had all swallowed 'Emile'!

The teachers are adults and most schools have a dress code. The teachers are professionals and like other employees dress accordingly, treating teachers like children in terms of what they. An wear is insulting.

There are parents who seem to have this chip on their shoulder with schools and / or authority, I do think there would actually be parents who would complain if every teacher says ''right I am handing out free money'' not sure if it lack of intelligence or what but no matter how perfect schools are there will always parents who sap all the complaints out of it they can possible manage, probably same ones who think all school ''mums'' are secretly creating whatsapp groups and hold kids parties just to get back at them because parents have nothing better to do

I think the problem now is how far students push the rules. In the 90s we rolled our skirts up and did stupid things with our ties.
Yes now they will have their underwear and bum on full show.

DDs primary used to try and have non uniform week in the summer term where they wore their own clothes as they did lots of activities/sports. They clearly said no cycling shorts, crop tops, bare midriff. And every year girls would turn up in hot pants, tiny crop tops. DD said one year they were freezing because it wasn’t even warm, they didn’t bring in sweaters or anything. So they just stopped it. It was an opportunity to be comfy but in this case it’s parents pushing the rules.

I like uniform in a relaxed kind of way, blazers are ridiculous though.

Teachers obviously don't need to be held to the same rules as students because they are adults and are in a position of authority there. But the rules that students are held to shouldn't be ridiculous or pointless, they are hardly going to respect the rules more if they are ridiculous. Uniform isn't necessary so uniform rules are pointless, as are rules about hairstyles and piercings beyond health and safety rules. My DD has lip piercings and bright pink hair, this doesn't affect her behaviour or educational attainment in any way (she's one of the top students in her year in fact) so her sensible school does not care at all about her hair colour or piercings.

As a matter of reference, taxes are payable by everybody from birth, not just adults. It's just that the vast majority of children don't earn over the personal tax-free allowance that every individual has, so the total of the tax that they owe is £0.

Successful child actors and other young prodigies have to pay tax too. The three main actors in the Harry Potter films will have paid more tax before they turned 18 than I ever will in my whole life.

But that aside, I think it's clear that there are some things that adults can do and children can't; but when it's a matter of style or what's considered appropriate, why would there be a difference?

Driving yourself to your job at school as an adult whilst the kids have to walk or go on the bus is one thing; having blue hair when your school's official ruling is that non-natural hair colours are inappropriate for school is quite a different matter.