Teachers should have to follow the same rules

[RhaenysRocks]

Just seen yet another fb post about a schools banning skirts. Cue lots of comments about teachers shouldn't be allowed to wear them then either. Ditto make up, nail varnish etc. AIBU to think this just shows how ridiculously petty and narrow minded many adults are and that if that's the message coming from home then it's not surprising the behaviour in schools is so poor?

This isn't a debate about if skirts / make up should or shouldn't be allowed but the level of thinking that ends up with those comments. Can adults really not appreciate the difference between professional, qualified adults having latitude in what they wear (and many schools are actually very strict about dress code for staff) and children following a uniform code they've agreed to when they join?
So, YABU it's a valid comment
YANBU It shows a lack of maturity and thinking skills in parents that contributes to discipline issues in school.

I think this this a dangerous way to think. What if we always just agreed with laws in place because our governments said 'thats the rules'. Women wouldn't have a right to vote for one. It's good to question things. It's how improvements are made. It's how change happens. If a rule can't be shown to be in the best interest of anyone, it should be questioned.

They want to ensure from a young age they are taught to obey the rules and not to question anything.

Yes it’s ridiculous but so is banning skirts for girls - they are more comfortable than trousers in my opinion and for girls who aren’t “perfect sized” fit better

Adults are not children. The role of a teacher in a school is not the same as the role of a student. Adults and teachers should not have to follow the same rules as children. Why would anything think they were the same, or should be treated the same? This shouldn't even be up for question.

I don't know, the uniform codes and restrictions are themselves often petty and pointless.

So if the school's going to have petty and pointless rules for the students, why not go full petty and pointless and impose them on staff as well?

If there’s no difference between teachers and pupils, then there’s no difference between men and women, kids and lampposts, polices and criminals. Let’s just lump absolutely everyone into one big pot and say the same rules apply to all. Then let’s revisit that after some time has passed and see how society is faring.

I am constantly having to explain that we don’t have a staff uniform so no it isn’t a huge “gotcha” to point out that I have my nails done. I can look children in the eye and tell them they are not allowed to do the same because they are school children with a strict dress code. I am not.

I actually find this line of argument fascinating because it reveals that parents believe teachers to be children. Because they’re in a school, perhaps? It’s tough to catch the logic.
The fact of having gained a degree and then a post graduate qualification before securing employment at a place of education seems to be absolutely overlooked.
It actually makes sense of the reaction that parents take to their child being disciplined at school - this is approached as a bickering or falling out between peers rather than a breaking of institutional rules by a child.
No wonder the teachers are fleeing in their droves!

I would never encourage my daughters to wear short miniskirt to school. They are there to learn not show off their legs and bum. What are parents teaching their daughters to do?

I think kids should be able to wear their hair like they want. I don’t get ‘unnatural’ colours somehow affecting behaviour or attitude. I think it’s awful to restrict anyone from looking like they want to.

That's easy. Teachers can generally be relied upon to wear appropriate clothing. If really necessary, a quiet word to say that an outfit wasn't quite appropriate would be sufficient. On the other hand, it wouldn't be too much of an exaggeration to say that teenagers' default position is to not want to follow the dress code. Rolling skirts up is the norm. There comes a point where it seems reasonable to say 'Well, if such a high proportion of you refuse to wear your skirts at a reasonable length, the answer is to ditch skirts and just have trousers. Don't say we didn't warn you 8 billion times.'

I have hand and wrist tattoos and a nose piercing. I also dress very smartly to teach. Never had a problem at work or in 25 years getting a teaching job.
At legal ages for these things our school allows them, alongside a smart uniform policy. Skirts must be a certain length and boys and girls can wear smart long shorts if they want in summer. When the weather is hot, pupils may wear their PE kit to stay cooler.
All eminently sensible imo.

If I get comments like this from the children I teach I also like to point out that unlike them I get paid to be there…

They don't wear short miniskirts, they start the day in a normal length skirt and by the time they're out of sight the skirt has been rolled up to within a millimetre of their pants.

Twas ever thus. My sisters in their 70s did the same in the 1960s. Curiously none of my cohort (mid to late 1970s) did.

This is the UK, we seem to love school uniforms here (I don't!)

I remember someone years ago on The Wright Stuff talking about her school only allowing blue hair bands, and if it wasn't the right shade of blue you got sent home. 🙄 It was so ridiculous it's stuck in my head!

Someone on here confiscated her DD's school blazer and sent a note to the school about it during the heatwave we had in 2018, because they were making the kids wear wool blazers when it was really hot.

Oh but the blazer is such a versatile piece of clothing! Pencil case, holder of notes and calculators, headscarf in a rain shower, picnic blanket on a sunny day.
On mufti day no kid has anything because everything is in the blazer!

Hahaa. In my school the kids don’t have a uniform but staff do!

That said, my kids’ school drop blazers in a hat wave in favour of PE kit. They have to use an actual (shock, horror) pencil case.

YABU to support uniform. I don’t agree with it. Other countries with better education than ours - e.g. Finland - don’t have it and the focus is just on being comfortable and ready to learn. It’s about control and it serves no purpose, let people decide later in life if they want to wear a uniform.

I understand your point. But after thinking about it, I don’t agree. Look at the outrage over the lack of accountability with Epstein and friends, when Boris had a party in Covid and the rest of us were locked down etc. As a society we do expect rules to apply to all, and rightly so. Why shouldn’t that be the case in schools? Perhaps we should expect more of teachers, they should be setting an example. If there are rules, they should be followed.

I think it depends what the rule is and the reasons behind it. I disagree that parents who question anything to do with uniform or rules, show a lack of maturity or thinking. As a parent I'm definitely on the stricter side and expect DS to follow rules on uniform etc, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't question things. If a school uniform consists of trousers for girls, fine. If you don't want your daughter to wear trousers or if she doesn't want to wear them, that isn't the school for her. However if a school suddenly introduces this as a rule, that's different. I don't wear trousers or jeans and never have done, because frankly I have a big-arse and big hips. I was very self-conscious in my teens and would have hated to have to wear something that made me look awful. I don't think asking adults/teachers to consider how they would feel if they were suddenly asked to dress in a way that made them feel uncomfortable or self-conscious, shows a lack of thinking - quite the opposite in fact. Likewise my son's previous school had a rule of blazers and ties had to be worn every day, even in hot temperatures - fine. We knew this when we signed up for the school. The reasoning was that they needed to get used to looking smart and professional in all weathers. What I didn't expect was for the male teachers (who presumably also needed to look smart and professional ) to be ditching their ties and jackets at the first sign of hot weather because 'it was way too hot to wear them'. Too hot for the adults but not for the pupils?

I am educated to masters level and beyond and my background is in healthcare. Uniforms are worn for reasons of infection control, identification of staff groups and roles and safety reasons. It absolutely does matter how people present themselves; we have rules for good reasons and I would enforce them generally. Thinking critically, in my workplace, appropriately and safely dressed staff definitely have the ability to improve outcomes.
The reality is that how you dress sometimes does influence who you are, or what you achieve. I would absolutely agree that some school uniform policies are ridiculous and harmful. The example that you give about shorts through; another way of looking at it is that we sometimes do have to comply with rules as part of a bigger picture. That can be a good lesson for children to learn too.

School uniform isn’t practical though. Shirt, tie, blazer in what way is that practical for practical science classes, home economics, wood work/technical subjects? I’ve never in my life thought “I’m going to do some painting, let me put on a shirt and tie”. And I can’t think of a time when I’ve donned a blazer to my singing lesson.

If uniform was practical I’d see the argument but it isn’t. Making kids carry outdoor coats because their blazer needs to be seen without giving them somewhere to put them. Making them wear full uniform in stifling heat - when teachers can dress for the weather. Treating comfort as something to be granted, gifted or earned is ridiculous. So yes I think if teachers can dress for the weather, and the activity they’re teaching children should similarly be allowed the same. That doesn’t mean abandoning uniform, but having choice eg a polo shirt option, a place to hang up heavy winter coats, the option to wear boots in winter, a skirt option for summer.

Don’t be fucking ridiculous 🙄

Well, perhaps part of that greater respect for education is due to the fact that the schools are not imposing petty rules about what the children wear.🤔