Teachers should have to follow the same rules

[RhaenysRocks]

Just seen yet another fb post about a schools banning skirts. Cue lots of comments about teachers shouldn't be allowed to wear them then either. Ditto make up, nail varnish etc. AIBU to think this just shows how ridiculously petty and narrow minded many adults are and that if that's the message coming from home then it's not surprising the behaviour in schools is so poor?

This isn't a debate about if skirts / make up should or shouldn't be allowed but the level of thinking that ends up with those comments. Can adults really not appreciate the difference between professional, qualified adults having latitude in what they wear (and many schools are actually very strict about dress code for staff) and children following a uniform code they've agreed to when they join?
So, YABU it's a valid comment
YANBU It shows a lack of maturity and thinking skills in parents that contributes to discipline issues in school.

Why are the rules in place at schools? I assumed it was to get children ready for the workforce? So they need to look smart and presentable. Similar to what you would need to wear in an office environment.

I would never say this to my child but I would question why it was acceptable for a teacher to dress in a way that was against the rules for students.

You say ‘You are a pupil and pupils have a different set of rules to staff. When you are staff, you can wear a skirt’.

I believe that it’s due to the length that pupils are wearing their skirts, rather than due to ‘equality’ as claimed. A blanket ban is an easy fix, to stop girls coming into school with their buttocks and underwear showing.

Staff generally don’t do this.

Some of the rules are too strict.

My daughter has huge awkwardly shaped feet and it was always a case of buying school shoes that fit her rather than the styles she liked! One year, the only black lace up shoes we could find that were comfortable was Dr Martens shoes.

School complained about the yellow stitching around the shoes and said they didn't meet the uniform policy as they were not plain black. I did complain and say these were the only shoes that fit her, but they insisted she must have plain black shoes with no coloured stitching.

I coloured the stitching in with shoe polish and they were acceptable then. We just had to keep remembering to colour them in when the yellow started showing back through!

But why not? I honestly don’t see the problem with a teacher teaching in gym wear?? I mean maybe I’d draw the line at ideological slogans but I see no problem with casual wear.
I think students having to wear blazers all the time and having to ask to take them off is absolutely preposterous, pointless, unrealistic and authoritarian. Equally I don’t see how hair or nail colour affects learning.

That isn't what you said. You said you didn't mind as long as they were a good teacher. I pointed out that your views on whether they were good had no relevance to what they did or did not wear.

That doesn’t address the double standard or explain why it’s ok for any adult to wear a skirt but not a teen.

Why is an explanation required. Sometimes there are just rules. Parents should trust that the rules are in the best interests of all children, as far as the school sees it and support the school in enforcing the rule.
If the parents don’t like one school’s rules, then there are other schools available.

I think the heat argument is the exception to this rule. Expecting students to wear their blazers in 30 degree heat when you are wearing a short sleeved shirt and no tie yourself is hypocritical. It’s not discipline or fashion, you are saying “it’s too hot for me to wear this but not too hot for you”. Which is clearly ridiculous. I’m very grateful my kids’ school has a summer uniform

I agree

I think it is a mix of both - I think there is a very valid argument that adults are allowed to have jewellery/make up etc that children are too young to have and skirt length is another one that is appropriate to have

BUT at the same time forcing children into a uniform that can be uncomfortable particularly in the heat is going too far because unless you choose certain job you have far more leeway

Personally I think more high schools should be moving into a much more comfortable uniform

@MrsHamlet you clearly don’t understand.
I don’t know a single male teacher who is happy talking to girls about skirt length.
those kind of accusations 100% ruin a teacher’s career

I completely do understand.

I'm a union rep in a school.

I was quoting another poster who clearly doesn't understand.

YANBU. What utter idiocy. Anyone with more than two braincells to rub together would understand that there are quite rightly umpteen things that teachers are allowed to do which students aren't. Do these dimwits apply the same logic to the parent-child relationship, I wonder? Giving their 11 year-olds a gin and tonic, letting them wear high heels and kick back in front of Game of Thrones? Or perhaps limiting themselves to Ribena and reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid in solidarity with their children? I'm not even in favour of school uniform, but honestly, what a stupid argument.

Why is an explanation required?

Because it’s good for teens to learn and understand why decisions are made.

if UK schools have so lost the ability to police school uniform, time for them to admit it then?

Of all the things that i am very happy about not having to put up with when my DC went to school, the batshit uniform rules was one. And the ability for the teachers/school to discipline transgressors here was something i was very glad about (something my DCs didn't really encounter aside of the odd detention for non-homework)

Ok, then tell them that their teacher is an adult and working. That they are being paid to be there to do a job. And that they do indeed have a dress policy, however it is different from the pupils.

But they are pupils and equity across pupils ensures adherence, fairness and inclusion. It prevents boundary pushing and ensures pupils can be identified as being from a particular school.

It is unbelievable that 17% of people (1/6) think that you are being unreasonable!

Should a pupil be able to put a teacher in detention if they haven’t marked their work by a certain date as well?!

With every new class I have a discussion about respect of teachers by pupils and respect of pupils by teachers. Although both should act respectfully, this clearly isn’t symmetric.

I explain that teachers are adult professionals with two degrees and, although the may be employed by a school, they aren’t pupils and have different rules.

And, yes, teachers should lead by example, but that doesn’t mean they should act as a pupil.

What frustrates me is teachers in the schools I work in is the extremes of teacher dress code from runway models to looking like they’ve slept in a hedge! Present a professional image to lead by example 🙄

Sorry to be pessimistic, but alot of parents just want an easy life so picking fault at the school is far easier than telling their chikd that they both agreed to rules and now it is time to follow them.

If I wear a short skirt to work I would be immediately talked to, if I did it again and again then I would end up with a verbal, written warning etc. I agreed to work at that school, therefore I need to follow the rules.
Thankfully I learnt at school that there are rules in place and either I listen or leave. The workplace is a LOT more strict that school is.
Parents need to choose a place of work (education in this situation) for their child that they can mostly agree with, and once they apply to that school and are accepted then the parents need to support the school. Or find alternative education.
But quite frankly, I'm fed up of this discussion from the point of view that a teacher had bright hair... yes and her employee is okay with it. But the school is teaching thousands of kids about professionalism for a range of careers. Yet again taking another life lesson away from parents. Once that child leaves school they can choose their place of work on how they want to dress.

When I was a Head of Year for many years I chose to wear smaller earrings rather than my massive Pat Butcher ones that I loves, I had my hair a natural colour and I dressed appropriately. Since not being a head of year and my school's rules on hair colour changing, I've been much more of an Art teacher with a little pink, bit more jewellery and my employer is fine with it. But again, I can't just wear anything. Or I would be there in my pj's, dressing gown and slippers every day!!!!!

Yeah. Parents should realise that adults can be how they wish to be (within limits). Pupils (children) need to follow the rules (within limits). 🤷‍♀️

That’s a better answer.

But it still doesn’t address either the double standard - why it’s ok for an adult but not a teen to wear a skirt. Both of which are reasonable questions which should have a reasonable answer if the policy stacks up.

Well, that is a school problem and I agree that should be picked up. My school has a dress code that requires professionals to dress professionally. There are basics on it for example teachers are not allowed to wear leggings, jeans, flip-flops et cetera. If a teacher came in wearing scrunch bum leggings and a crop top. They would find themselves in the headteachers office, pretty sharpish.

It won’t stop bullying agreed, but it removes one element. With a uniform, students from poor families are wearing the same clothes as those from better off families. (Similarly when students collect their lunches at school they usually just tap their thumb and nobody knows who is on free school meals or not). Children from poor families often hate non-uniform days, surely you can understand why?

And if you think teachers can just brush off being called a nonce you are deluded. In fact the parents will often back the student up, and say that the teacher should not have commented on the student’s clothing. Or worse, put in a complaint about the teacher. You can’t send the students home (that’s a whole other can of worms). Teachers are pretty powerless to do anything about it. So the school bans skirts to avoid the issue.

The answer btw is adults aren’t in the same physical or social context — they aren’t running in playgrounds, sitting on floors in groups, or navigating peer judgement in the same way.

much better than because I said so and if you don’t like it go to another school

I agree - my view on their competence has no relation to what they wear. That’s my exact point. What we wear does not impact our competence, or a child’s ability to do school work.