What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

She probably has to put up with men leering at her - you know ugly older ones who think they are owed porn sex from a tight young thing

It’s not all men but it seemingly is increasing numbers of them

Obv it’s not accurate to say all men are evil.

But my opinion atm is that mosf men no longer enrich the lives of women.

Great! I don't blame her. I wonder why anyone would think differently.

A friends daughter turned gay age 20 and found a lovely girlfriend.

Personally I don't see a problem. The bar for men has been horrifically low for centuries, now they can't rape and abuse us with impunity they turn to the manosphere to blame women.

Of course it's "not all men" but its enough that most men buy into patriarchal bullshit in an attempt to "protect" their daughters from the absolutely fuck wittery they perpetuated themselves or saw other men perpetuate and tolerated.

And actually, it is "all" men when most men stand by and say nothing when their mates use misogynistic language, treat women as objects and bodyparts, and dehumamise women who they aren't related to and don't want to fuck.

And I don't buy into "women are just as bad". Women disliking men does not result in men being murdered. It does not result in men's bodily autonomy being restricted. Mass events catered to women do not come with domestic violence warnings when thousands of women are boozed up.

I say this as someone with many male friends, with a male partner and male colleagues whom I like and respect. And I say this to their faces too.

Yes, men are definitely so much more emotionally stable!

That's why they're over 90% of rapists and sexual abusers, incestuous abusers, and paedophiles, as well as over 87% of murderers, and commit over 80% of violent crime in general. It's all because of their wonderful emotional stability!

Not like those wicked, unstable, anecdotal female teachers who scream at children! I know I think that raping children is much more emotionally stable and far less dreadful than shouting at them! Perish the thought!!

/s

I don’t blame her, it makes me feel like this too. I also think that namalt. But so many of these rich men have been up to shadiness. On top of that perverted and morally corrupt billionaires are being allowed to meddle in politics, given positions of political power and allowed to exert influence on politics and policy. It appears this has gone on for years and it is still going on but in the open now.

Genuine question, doesn't it make you feel like if given half the opportunity and the same amount of money, many men who act the same? A minority I hope, but not a significant minority. If you gave that money and power to any man on the street, how many would have flown to Epstein's Island?

There is a very depressing study out there that anonymously asked a random sample of men if no one ever found out, would they have sex with an underage girl (I mean below 16) and most said yes. I try not to think about it.

Same! Sounds to me like she has her head screwed on.

Does she has a decent father? Or other male influences? Maybe just reiterate how yes SOME men are evil etc.

You’re not going to get a medal from the menfolk you know, no matter how much you bend over backwards to defend a sex class that is responsible for raping, pillaging and destroying everything they touch the world over. But let me guess: you’re a “cool girl”? One of the “lads”? They’ll still do the same to you given half a chance.

This is the worry. There are plenty of women who would not cover themselves in glory given unlimited power and resources of course, but the behaviour would probably be a bit different.

Of course it has nothing to do with their wealth. A lot of men are simply disturbed individuals. Just look at the Pelicot case, in the radius of 50 kilometres a man managed to find at least 80 men who were willing to come and rape his drugged up unconscious wife over and over again. These men were just ordinary men walking around us, teachers, truck drivers, nurses etc. There is absolutely no way of knowing.

Another one who largely agrees with her. I find most men deeply mediocre.

They already do act the same. The vast number of abusers are not millionaires. The men raping Gisèle* *Pelicot were not millionaires. Fritzl wasn’t a millionaire. The Yorkshire Ripper wasn’t a millionaire and so on and on and on. They were just men. Standard men with standard jobs who took every opportunity to harm women.

I agree with her.
At her age, I thought the bad ones were in the minority.
Now I know it’s the good ones who are.

Honestly do nothing! and she does have a point.

My DD is 25 and I did start to worry that in my attempt to ensure she knew her worth, had boundaries and stood up for herself that I had gone too far and she just hated men.

However as she got older and her friends started to meet serious boyfriends she got to see the value of a loving and supportive relationship and is now very happy with a lovely boyfriend, boundaries and all intact!

There’s no male equivalent of bitch or Karen because those words are used to try to shame and shut ‘mouthy’ women up. I know there was originally a racial element to ‘Karen’ but it’s not particularly how it’s used now.

Look around you and you will see plenty of emotionally unstable male behaviour. Men are sometimes better at hiding emotions, until they build up and are expressed in unhealthy or harmful ways, or expressed only as anger because it’s how they are taught. Anger is a more acceptable emotion for men to display. This does not mean they’re better at it, it’s the opposite in fact.

Agree we've gone backwards. I'm of the controversial view that TV such as Love Island and the propensity of women to look completely fake (like bloody sex dolls with blow up lips and boobs) has done untold damage to the women's rights and the increase in misogyny.

I don’t read it as she hates every single man on the planet. More that she is educating herself and hates abusive men and misogyny as she should. Saying ‘it’s not all men’ is really unhelpful because whilst not all men are rapists/ murderers the majority of men play into this system of oppressing women one way or another. I’m guessing you are worried she won’t meet a man to build a life with, well firstly that’s not the be all and end all and secondly it just means if she dates she will have high standards. Nothing wrong with that.

She’s not jaded, she’s saying what she sees. Hopefully some examples of decent men will improve her data on men but that’s up to men isn’t it.

Misandry is not a thing. It's men that don't like other men being called out that throw that phrase around.

NAMALT, but most are, not in big ways like Epstein, but in smaller ways; routine sexual coercion and manipulation, future faking, devaluing of their partner's career, lack of responsibility for relationships (their children included), road rage, anti social drinking, porn use, watching women take their clothes off with their friends for some good old 'Harmless Fun'...

A large minority get better with age and emotional maturity.

Like PPs, I wish I'd had the same attitude as your DD (and my DD). My sisters and I were brought up to value a man's approval above all else, not from what anyone said to us (apart from my GM😅), but from what we saw and heard all around us during our childhood. 2 of 3 of us traumatised and affected still now as a result.

We grew up in an era when society had been conned into thinking that teen and pre teen girls (aka children) wanted sex. We had parents from the 'free love' era and then coming through the 90s ladette phase when we could be groomed and sexually abused ironically, and actually more openly.

Yes.... hundreds of men in the Epstein files and some pretty horrific stuff coming out, but the only person doing time for these disgusting acts is a woman.

100 times this!! I’m lucky enough to be married to one of the good ones (I think 👀) but it could’ve been so different, I wasn’t brought up to value myself (women in general) or to expect very much from men at all… I never really knew a good one until I met my now husband. The ones close to me were violent, liars, cheats, alcoholics, bullies… you name it! I hope your daughter is firm enough to never accept any of that shit.