What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

Be pleased. Her bar will be high, as it should be.

Jesus ... ^^ this!

Handmaidens are out in force tonight on MN.

Time for bed I think.

Id reply, I can see why you might feel that way darling, but I’d gently remind you that half the world are men, many great and wonderful things have been done by men and just to keep an open mind, humans are complex beings.

Same 😂

I mean she's right...

Good for her. She's right to loathe them.

How was Hillary Clinton a bitch?

Moreover, Thatcher being the most wicked PM ever is pretty subjective. Tony Blair sent us into the Iraq War, cooperating with Bush's fake narrative. Boris lied to Parliament among other highly immoral actions.

'Males are more emotionally stable'-

Hmm. That depends which emotions. Men are more likely to be affected by emotions like anger, sexual desire, etc. It's rare for women to get anger out by using violence, or to risk something extremely important due to sexual desire (look at prominent figures like JFK or Alexander Hamilton for examples of men who risked extremely important positions for sexual encounters)

I can’t see the problem - her eyes are open.

@Veryproudtobehere ,cases of female teachers abusing male students do exist, and they’re serious. But the idea that it’s “crazy” common is a bit misleading.

Most research shows that the vast majority of teacher sexual abuse is male-on-female. Studies from the U.S. Department of Education and other sources suggest roughly 90% of confirmed cases involve male teachers and female students, while female-on-male cases are much rarer.

The reason it might feel more frequent online is availability bias: a few high-profile or shocking cases (like Debra LaFave or Mary Kay Letourneau) get shared over and over, and viral clips on channels like Law & Crime amplify that impression.

Exactly. I don't see the problem. There is nothing wrong in that text. Smart young woman.

It really, really isn't.

Last time I looked at the stats, there were 14,000 men in prison for sex crimes in the UK.

How many in women's prisons? About 130.

Men are a serious risk to women. It's not equal.

13 yo DD tells me she's a lesbian. I really hope it isn't a phase as if she is gay, I'll be so relieved she'll be so much less likely to be on the receiving end of the rape, sexual abuse and harassment I endured over the years, and especially as a young woman.

What's changed is isn't being swept under the carpet anymore. Men have always included a large number of creeps and predators. When I was young there were pop songs in the charts openly sexualising school girls and we all sang along as it was so normalised FFS.

So yes, it is shit that men are like this, and it's shit for your DD and other young women. But the first step towards being able to tackle a problem is being able to name it. And, we're only just at the beginning of the naming stage because some people still refuse to see it. Like the poster I'm responding using to, for example. And so many people in power or with platforms. (Noam Chomsky being my latest disappointment in a very long line of disappointing rape apologist men. Really thought he was one of the good guys, but no ).

agreed

I’m not sure what’s wrong with what she’s said. I mean, it’s true isn’t it?

She’s not wrong though

Well, she's not wrong.

If you just look at prison statistics alone, and compare the sheer number of men who commit crimes versus women who commit crimes, and then look at places like Sudan, Iran, and Afghanistan it becomes clear that if all men over the age of 10 ceased to exist tomorrow, the world would be a utopia in comparison to what it is now.

No, women aren't perfect, but the wrong 'uns are a tiny fraction of the number of men who are perverted, violent, abusive, and plain evil.

I have children of both sexes, and I hope I've raised them both to be upstanding people who don't conform to gendered stereotypes. So far, my older teenage son is fully understanding of why women might be leery of men, and would probably be the first to agree with your daughter.

Your daughter is intelligent and intuitive with high standards it seems. So she is all set for a good life, no doubt with a few knocks along the way, inevitably.

Just show how proud you are of her OP. I’m sure you already do.
No need to tell her anything really. She is right to feel the way she does and she feels close enough to you to rant and close enough to read your true feelings, close enough in fact to appreciate your guidance when necessary. But this was just a rant!
I suspect most women were doing the same last night. I certainly was.

In a very general, casual way, I tell my young friends and nieces….keep the people with integrity in your life if you like them and discard the rest, but remember -all men are daft at times, so always rely on your independent self.

Not Noam 😭 I really thought he was a decent one.

It might not be 'all men' but these days I fully believe it's a majority of men, and not a small minority. As I said to my husband today (who seems decent so far, after 20 years!) in a fit of dark humour, 'if you give a man an inch, he'll rape half a dozen women'. It seems that as soon as they get any power or influence, they go bad.

Why?

Don't say anything, if she meets a really good man, so be it, and otherwise this thought will just keep her safe from a lot of dangers.

She's right so you should be proud of her

She’s right sadly. All the “give men a chance” and “you need to find some better men” and “well I knew some women who shouted or made poor political decisions or helped men do abhorrent evil” - where are the gangs of women plotting and scheming to rape and torture vulnerable boys and young men?? Considering the trusted legions of female nursery staff, teachers, nurses, care home staff etc etc? It’s just not in our nature, we leave others alone, we share, we fear prison and we help people live their lives. We also have emotions like frustration, anger, jealousy and sexual desire, but we talk to our friends, maybe shout scream cry, and we deal with it without raping and murdering men and boys.
There are some amazing men supporting other men to be good humans though - the dad hugs guy on IG, what makes a man and the Aussie book loving hunk whatever his name is. I think their fan base is mostly women unsurprisingly but they are doing fantastic things to promote masculinity as being non violent, non raping, thinking, considerate humans. We need these men to have the influence levels of Tate and “grab em by the pussy” Trump and then we’d see a huge settling of humankind - men need to chill the fuck out, get a book, go for a run, go boxing/MMA if you have that physical energy bursting out, just stop fucking up women’s and kids lives!

No, I think you can provide some balance. I would point out that the news focuses on these people and it makes it seem like it's everyone. Media and social media doesn't focus on good men, and I think it's OK to point this out.

I’d hate all men if I was 19 again

She’s right. Very, very few good men out there tbh. Most are selfish, dangerous.