What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

I agree with her men cause wars and are dangerous to women.

Are you for real? 🤣 And 'listening to your ex wife'? You realise the OP is female with an ex husband, not an ex wife?

Women are only 4-5% of the UK prison population. Those who are there are usually in for theft, fraud, drugs & non-violent offences. This does not excuse their crimes but it is true that men are far more likely to be criminal and to commit violence & sexual assault specifically.

98% of sexual offences are committed by men. Cases of abusive women certainly exist but women like Maxine Carr make the headlines precisely because they are unusual. Male victims of women probably umderepport due to taboo but the evidence overall doesn't support women committing vast amounts of sexual assault or offending as much as men do.

This thread is currently two posts above the one about Epstein. Just saying

Why say it's not all men? Why not let her have her feels? Do you want her to be able to talk with you? Validate, empathize, and reflect.

Encouraging her to be fussy is good. My daughter said at roughly the same age your DD is now she would rather be single than be with the wrong man. 20 years later she is still single, financially independent and happy. She jokingly says she can only just cope with her own baggage (diagnosed ADHd and ASD as an adult) let alone someone else’s. I would say though that the young men my other DD and their friends have met, married, had children with are engaged fathers and husbands and in general decent men. Obviously I think your DD has been affected by your husbands cheating and you don’t have to look far in the public eye for some disgusting male specimens so I wouldn’t over egg the fact that there are some decent men around and just see what the future holds.

I'm 70 and love most men. The ones I know are fabulous.

Of course I don't mix with fascists etc.

First post nails it, but don't expect a lot of sympathy for this view - it would be like going on 4chan and asking for rational and reasonable views about women.

The big difference there is the men who say they hate women tend to always be chasing them and going out of their way to always have a woman or women in their life.

The women who say they hate men try their very best to avoid them.

I agree. I would have been saved 8 years of rape, abuse and agony if I had gone into my teenage years being naturally cautious of men and carefully monitoring their behaviour before allowing any of them to get close to me. Instead I had a mother who told me to ignore my own instincts and literally just go out with everybody that asked me. The more money or the more street cred the better. She would have probably literally sold me if she could. “Just go out with him, just for a drink, what’s the worst that can happen? He’s really keen, he clearly adores you! Hes got money! What more do you want? “. Then six months later when I was pregnant and he was beating me black and blue it was “ well you made your own bed now so what do you want me to do? Life is hard but he took you to that nice restaurant didn’t he ”.

you should be proud of your daughter and let her self protective instincts stay exactly where they are. She may not even want a man in the future andI don’t blame her. But if she did. A good man will understand and be happy to have a friendship and wait to see if it can go any further over trust and understanding has been built. That’s the only reason I’ve stayed with my current DH. Wet had a solid foundation of friendship before I even thought of taking that step ( even though I pretty much loved him from the day I met him).

So there are very very very few females like this.

It’s not the same comparison at all. Think the Giselle Pelicot case and many others like it. Men who thought they could get away with their abuse. And are even amazed to be prosecuted for it.

Check out how many women are murdered every week by men. Even only in the UK. Raped. Assaulted.

Men and women just don’t even begin to compare in terms of assault, abuse, murder and violence.

Op, your dd is absolutely very wise to treat all men with utmost caution.

If only all women did and stopped behaving as if men are some sort of prize.

In short, men are very dangerous for women and children.

Those men were there when we were young. I mean look at the gross comedy shows in the 70s. Jimmy Saville etc etc. We just didn’t have social media constantly reminding us. She’s probably safer now because these figures can’t hide so well.

@suburberphobeim 59 and you are 70. We are fortunate in one sense that the gross men don’t see us and certainly don’t speak to us. They save themselves for young women. They are the ones catcalling out of white vans at school girls, messaging them on social media, and sending them dick picks on dating apps. ( my two daughters 20 and 26 have experienced the worst of them ). Your daughter does right to come to the conclusions she has. Yes there are nice sensitive men but they are also probably hiding.

I’m operating from the position of being brought up by a really good dutiful father, I’ve got a good husband, a lovely son and I work with really great young men.

After Epstein I still think your daughter has a good point. It has horrified me, and made me wonder how many men would treat girls and women like that if they could only get away with it. The whole thing has been scary as hell, especially as the main perpetrators remain in positions of power with their supporters still backing them. Disgusting.

Cool girls on mumsnet: namalt
Also cool girls on mumsnet: good luck finding a man who doesn’t watch porn

Woody Allen abused and then married Mia Farrow’s adopted daughter. What a creep.

Roman Polanski on the run after raping a 13 year old.

And these men are still celebrated.

These are the famous ones. In open sight. Blatant and brazen.

I really think men behave foully whenever they think they can.

My DD is almost 16 and while she doesn't hate all men she has said time and time again, it's most men.
In her school the cirriculum has focused on consent and healthy relationships for a long time. She knows about red flag behaviour better than most adults around me and what the different forms of abuse are. She is also aware women are just as capable of abusive behaviour. The scary thing is my kid loves statistics - she knows that most violent crime is comitted by men. DA & sexual assault - done mostly by men. Attitude towards women and girls remains a problem even at school, online and around her in every day life.
We also have a son who we are raising to respect women (well everyone). At 10yrs old we are constantly gettig him to question what language he is using and what "banter" is his picking up (and he is still in primary school!) His obsession over certain footballers and their attitude off pitch - just because them are half decent at their sport etc.
I worry about the relaxed attitudes of some of my friends who are parents, especially of sons.

Why would you persuade her to ve less guarded. She is right in many ways. She's 19. Stop implying her views are invalid

The problem is that the good ones are not speaking out against the bad ones. Things won’t change until men’s voices are heard.

Im not saying it proportioned please dont get me wrong. But whats interesting is the rising cases of men reporting domestic abuse. I think now men dont feel the need to hide it theres a massive campaign now to save men from domestic abuse everywhere you go theres helplines and posters up.

But my initial point stands the vast majority of men and wommen live harmoniously. To walk out into the world thinking every male is bad is a very bad thing to think on or act on. Men are doing the same a huge rise in men staying single because they dont trust women.

I blame social media for it and skewed reporting and peoples views. People take one persons experience and think its happening on a much bigger scale than it really is. There are women and men who live in a bubble created by algorithmic selective post viewing.

You see it every day, you comment or click a post about swimming pools. Next your feeds full of posts about swimming pools. Does it mean everyone has a swimming pool apart from me? No social media algorythims think im interested in it.

Hope i made sense.

It’s ridiculous and dangerous to indiscriminately hate a whole class of people such as men. Women on here who ‘hate men’ are no better than men who ‘hate women’. Come on, we have better standards on here surely.

I don’t think hate is the issue.

Caution is wise.

Please look at the evidence of male behaviour.

This. “Not all men” is as cringe as “all lives matter” there is a problem with misogyny that your DD recognises. This acknowledgment will prepare her much better than simply hoping one day she will fall in love with a good man and forget her concerns. Maybe listen and respect her feelings.

Surely the opposite applies. Being over cautious could prevent someone from falling in love with a good man etc.

After all, if we’re supposed to believe that all men either are dangerous or have the innate potential to be - what on earth are we doing marrying and birthing them?