Are all fathers creepy?

[Alex122022]

My experience in a different thread (on swimming pool changing room etiquette) has been quite interesting: there seems to be a widely shared opinion that all men are creeps and there are never any innocent explanations for their behaviour.

While I completely agree that a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive. Be it simply ignorance or lack of judgement.

I experienced the same on playgrounds: playing hide & seek with my daughter? Mothers approach my DW and tell her that "a perv" is watching the children. Playing with DD - well meaning mothers asking her whether she is ok or needs help.

AIBU to think this is a bit excessive?

OP mentioned it in his post and has tried to justify men in women’s spaces. We’re not ‘sidetracked’, we’re telling him that he’s wrong. He wants to come to a predominantly women forum and speak his man point of view and for us to decide he’s right. Fuck that.

@BubblesandTiara and I have seen so many women rudely behaving towards a dad at playgroup or baby clinic because it was a MALE - and I don't mean a breastfeeding group, I mean a normal baby clinic to check their weight, or a baby group for babies and toddlers.

Men aren't allowed to show affection or squeal with delight when they're around something cute, like a puppy or toddler. Any such expression of emotion would undoubtedly draw bemused expressions of disgust, and suspicion, from any women in the area.

So when men are spending time with children, or babies, they have to force a neutral expression, and act as though they are spending time with their children out of duty, rather than because they want to. Because men expressing affection is creepy.

... and then women react with wide-eyed surprise whenever it turns out that they're expected to be the primary caregiver for their children, rather than the father.

"nor do they enjoy being at the playground,"

So you mean a proper and decent father would never go with their daughters to the playground?

You’ll have people cos on here saying they’re dads aren’t they are the greatest etc etc. they wouldn’t know. Most men are creeps

Where did he 'try to justify men in women's spaces'? He didn't condone the man in the changing room, and I agree he shouldn't have mentioned it. However, a playground or baby group is not a 'women's space'. If it is, then women can't complain that men don't do any childcare!

I don’t know which men are dangerous and, statistically, enough are that I need to be worried about it. I believe the men in my family to be safe because they have given me no reason to doubt them. Random men in women’s changing rooms have given me no reason to trust them.

I think it's very amusing that you can't understand why women might feel hostile towards men OP.

Are you a bit daft? Maybe google male violence against women crime figures ....

It not rocket science or anything mysterious. Men are predatory. Against women, children, and yes - other men.

Well you just said you do understand why we are more wary.

Then go on to say you 'want to understand'?

Ask other men why they treat women so poorly.

Women aren’t here to be kind to random men, even ones at playgroup.

ahem, thanks? Who said they were? We are not here to be kind to random women either as it happens 😂

• Being rude to men seems to be women not smiling and entertaining them in a lot of cases* don't patronise me, I have been dealing with other girls all my life, I can recognise rudeness in other women.

Being rude as in being rude, tutting, rolling their eyes, and being very obviously very childishly unpleasant. I've even seen one pointing and whispering at my husband and overheard one saying to the nurse: how are men allowed here

It was pathetic

Just be ignorant

Bullshit. Excusing men is what gets women raped or killed.

If you see an adult struggling with a child screaming their head off.. and did nothing... and it later turned out to be a kidnapping, everyone would ask "Why did no one do anything?"

Its a no win situation. Although I'm pretty sure kidnappers wouldn't bother with a child seat in a car!

The OPs play park example sounds complete wierd but none of us were there. We don't know the exact chain of events.

No, obviously not. A minority of men are horrible, MN would just have you believe it’s the vast majority.

Exactly the same way men are. Women can also be predators. The fact that the majority is male does not exclude that there are also women.

If you want to make generalising statements ("all men are a threat") you need to accept generalising answers.

Most men are creeps behind closed doors

Here we go again, a man expecting us to centre men’s hurt feelings about potentially being the target of female suspicion, rather than thinking for a second about the commonplace violence, rape, and routine sexual harassment that causes this suspicion in the first place.

It’s all part of the same bloody entitlement. Women! Why aren’t you making my life easier and more pleasant? Can’t you see you are wrong and probably discriminatory? Now simmer down give us a smile.

Where have I justified that? I've said it's inappropriate - but there are sometimes innocent explanations.

How?🙊

What a ludicrous statement 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

98% of sexual offences are committed by men.

He said they were just ignorant or just didn’t think so was justifying them. Then he went on about what he was possibly meant to do if he can’t go in the women’s toilets but his daughter needs him. NO MEN IN WOMENS SPACES!!!

What a goady title.

🙄

@BubblesandTiara but women are monitored and examined during pregnancy birth and after. fathers not so much.
neglectful parenting and child sexual abuse are different risk scenarios.

I can see exactly why you're up against women not exactly being welcoming of you. You would 100% have me on my guard as well.

Please, give me the statistics of women being in a man's space and sexually assaulting him, vs men in a woman's space and sexually assaulting her.

that sounds like a wish from a bitter person, thankfully it has nothing to do with real life and what most of us experience.

Don't be ridiculous.

Navigate your way through by using your empathy, grace and kindness.

Don't make yourself a victim. You say you understand why some women will be wary of you, so start there. You can't change it, so suck it up. Be nice. Be polite. Accept that it will take a bit longer for women to trust you, compared to if you were also a woman.

Just get on with it. Parent your kid and don't be bitter about stuff you can't control.