Are all fathers creepy?

[Alex122022]

My experience in a different thread (on swimming pool changing room etiquette) has been quite interesting: there seems to be a widely shared opinion that all men are creeps and there are never any innocent explanations for their behaviour.

While I completely agree that a father in a women's changing room - especially when there are older girls - is inappropriate, I can easily see how this could happen without any ulterior motive. Be it simply ignorance or lack of judgement.

I experienced the same on playgrounds: playing hide & seek with my daughter? Mothers approach my DW and tell her that "a perv" is watching the children. Playing with DD - well meaning mothers asking her whether she is ok or needs help.

AIBU to think this is a bit excessive?

An easy mistake to make? These men must be thick as shit.

Of course not all men are creepy.

But if a man does something like walk into a female changing room or toilet, then he will be considered creepy.

Or walk up behind a woman in a dark alleyway.
Or hide in a bush in a playpark..

My Dad likes photographing birds by the river. But at one point the river path passes a playground... so he puts the camera away until he's fully passed it. But he understands that a man on his own with a big camera might concern people.

On the other hand... DH says what everyone thought was a sweet old man used to enjoy watching their rugby practice at school (on a public field). It went on for years before he was caught "fiddling" with himself while watching the boys play. The teachers were a bit more on guard about who was watching the lessons regularly after that.

I don't believe that every man involved with children are necessarily creeps, but creeps are attracted to positions of power over children which is why there are safeguarding rules

I haven’t seen the other thread but, nobody’s that ignorant, surely? Maybe it’s “just” entitlement.

You used that thread as an example that the Dad could have just been mistaken. Any man that uses female single sex spaces is either very creepy or an entitled arsehole who does not respect women and girls privacy and dignity. He wasn’t mistaken at all.
And no, not all men are like that. But he is, hence the majority of posters on that thread agreeing with the OP.

Honestly? Yes. Because they see themselves more as parent than anything else.

But there are situation which are difficult. The obvious one is the silly idea of having baby changing facilities only in female toilets - it leaves fathers no choice but to go there (or change the baby somewhere on the floor in public). Fortunately I have always found women who were understanding and supportive and simply accompanied me.

The other is when DD gets old enough to refuse going to the men's toilet - but is too scared to go alone, which means hovering around the entrance of the female toilet and apologising to everyone and hoping she does not need help. I assume the latter will happen to mothers as well.

A girl accompanied by her father.

The father should not be in the female changing room

MyEdgyOliveTraybake
Am I allowed to open a thread to ask if all women are bitches? Or would that be inappropriate?

Theres as many good men as good women in the world. These threads all make out like all men etc etc. there are bitches and bastards out there. No threads like this are necessary

I agree with you that obviously all men aren't perverts and there is often a bit of hysteria about certain situations but I think your choice of the men going into the female changing rooms is a bad example to use. How can a man not know that is inappropriate?

Yes, if they are young enough to need help with changing and they are with a male parent, then yes, they should be in the male changing room with their father. The situation in question is for children's swimming lessons, so there are no adult men getting changed, but even if there were, there is no situation where an adult man should be in the women's changing rooms, even if staying dressed.

spannasaurus

well maybe that’s the argument for mixed changing rooms then which I’m happy to know we have. I would not want a girl on her own having to avert her eyes from grown men changing

Why would she be on her own? She is with her father.

not all men are creepy but all creepy men are men.
men are unwelcomed in women’s spaces period.
what do men do? go in the men’s change room and IF the dad thinks that’s not appropriate ask himself WHY? are the men in there pissing or shitting on the walls and floors? jerking off? or does the dad know some men like to abuse small bodies?

That's what I would do - likewise crossing the street or keeping an obvious distance.

But e.g. the incident on the playground involved me hiding behind a tree, my daughter finding me and dragging me around - and vice versa. Not sure how this is suspicious.

Couldn't it also be that DD does not want it?

A girl on her own would be in the female changing room. A girl of 8 or under accompanied by her father would go in the mens

The park mums were wrong but the toilet and changing room mums aren't

Patronising much? Men are a threat. Even the nice ones. It doesn’t seem to take much for them to prove it, either. Can’t count how many articles I’ve read when the woman has been raped, or beaten, or murdered. “But he was such a nice guy!”.

I’m not scared of all men, but you’d have to be a bit thick not to recognise that men are a problem.

Then they’re thick to not realise that a man can appear a threat in a WOMENS space. This isn’t for women to solve!

Campaign for better baby change facilities.

When my son no longer wanted to come in the women’s toilet with me, I had to hang around outside the men’s toilet. I didn’t just think I’ll go in the men’s. Men don’t want women in their toilets either! Everyone else manages. My male partner managed with our daughter without going into women’s spaces. FFS.

spannasaurus

Sorry, I meant with her dad even. This is like that thread where they said little boys should go on their own into the men’s changing room and their mum wait outside. None of this should be done in real life

It's not an easy mistake to make. No adult man should be in a women's changing room, regardless of why he is there. They shouldn't need a sign to tell them that.

No, of course not. Just not like all women and children are victims of men. However because some are, both sexes tend to make modifications to our behaviour. Women to protect ourselves and our children, men so they don't cause unnecessary alarm/invade privacy and/or fall under suspicion. I get that it's inconvenient for men to have to keep this in mind and avoid certain things they want to do. But having to check our surroundings, avoid certain places after dark, take taxis when we might rather walk isn't the best for us either. Until some men stop being creeps, harasers, rapists and pedophiles thats life I'm afraid.

Next to the sign FEMALE ONLY we need to add:

GOOD MEN STAY OUT SO THAT BAD MEN STAND OUT

Perhaps these 'innocent' men would then be shamed enough to allow women the dignity and privacy they are entitled to by law.

Good for you. And because this was true for you, it must be true for everyone else? What would you have done if your son had an accident in the men's toilet?

Why did that man take his dd into the woman's changing room?

Because he likely assumed at least some of the men in there were predatory and would be looking at his dd.

Men think other men are predatory, yet, as women, the ones who are most likely to suffer at the hands of predatory men, we are supposed to give men the benefit of the doubt because NAMALT. Fuck that shit.

Should fathers take their sons into the female changing rooms to avoid predatory men in the men's changing rooms or do they protect their sons in the same way they could protect their daughters?