To tell my DS not to ‘snitch’

[Griffalo123]

My DS (9) came home upset from school as a friend of his was angry with him.

My DS found his friend throwing wet tissue onto the ceiling of the school loos, and told a teacher, resulting in the friend getting in trouble (they’d been told to tell a teacher if they saw this happening).

As the friend wasn’t hurting anyone as such (I appreciate it isn’t good for the building/someone has to clear it up) I said perhaps he shouldn’t have told the teacher, and maybe saying to his friend it’s not a good thing to do would’ve been better.

My DH said he did exactly the right thing.

My mother said he should absolutely not have told on his friend.

I know the right thing is to say something, but in reality, what would you have told your child?

Interested in other opinions to see if I was being unreasonable and how to navigate this going forward!

Thanks.

This is one of those ‘do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?’ scenarios. Wisdom is definitely wasted on the old.

That said, was your son perhaps afraid HE would be blamed for the mess in the toilets, @Griffalo123 ?

I don’t believe he was worried about this, but my DH did point this out as a reason why it would be good to tell someone.

While generally I don’t think it’s a good thing for kids to be running to tell the teacher about every misdemeanour, in this case the teacher had specifically asked to be told if anyone was doing this, so I think your son did the right thing. (My opinion would be different if the teacher hadn’t specifically asked)

Agree this is tricky. Your son did the right thing here. He doesn't want to become the one that always tells though or he won't have any friends. Young Sheldon comes to mind.

Was the teacher discreet ie didn't make it known who let her know? That way there is no repercussions for your son from the other kids plus the class will know if they do tell they aren't going to be shown up for it.

That said, as your son gets older, he will hopefully come to understand the difference between things you should always report and things that you needn't be worried about. It's hard though. Even typing this post to explain it clearly is difficult because each situation will depend on its own facts!

That's a hard one, I think it's based on if he took pleasure in telling on him, or was simply doing what he thought was the right thing.

My opinion and what I would tell mine is that you never lie to the teacher so if asked outright always tell the truth but to only ‘tell tales’ if someone is hurt or upset because telling tales does lose you friends so is best saved for the important stuff like if someone is bullying a classmate not chucking a bit of tissue about. So in this instance it would have been better to walk away and to keep quiet even though your son knows it’s a bad choice. But he didn’t do anything wrong. He’s only 9 and he was doing what the teacher asked. It’s more a learning moment about friendships.

Of course he shouldn’t have told on his friend. Having your friend’s back is also an important thing to learn in life. Obviously if it was serious or someone was hurt that’s a different matter. We are turning into a nation of fucking snitchers though and it’s horrible, we need to go back to it being social unacceptable.

This is about teaching your child right from wrong. Labelling it snitching is incredibly negative, same as being labelled a ‘grass’.

Your son clearly knows right from wrong, and has respect for authority. Which is why he ‘snitched’.

As kids get older the peer pressure not to snitch or be a grass is immense and that’s when bullying can become an issue.

Praise your son for doing the right thing.

i think the nuance of whether to tell/'snitch' or not has to come with quite an emotionally mature conversation about when we should speak up.

Of course we want to protect our friends from getting into trouble, and silly stuff where no real harm is done, doesn't need to be 'told' on.

But things where stuff is getting damaged, or people getting hurt or bullied, or things are getting stolen, or you yourself could get in trouble, should ALWAYS be bought up to the teachers.

No snitching on friends unless someone is getting hurt. In which case tell person to stop, and if they dont, snitch immediately.

This thread is a perfect example
of why many kids at the moment ignore teachers and think they are an irrelevance and don’t need to be listened to at all.

The teacher specifically told the kids to report anyone carrying out this act (this also means that his mate knew full well that it was a wrong thing to do). You and a lot of other crap parents on this thread are telling your child to ignore the teacher’s explicit instructions and back up his naughty friend instead.

I would be telling him to play with kids who aren’t rule breaking destructive little shits as well!

If the teacher asked for reports, I guarantee the teachers have been getting it in the neck from the cleaners. The kids had been explicitly and clearly told not to participate in the vandalism and his friend did. It's not 'snitching', it's helping the school. It wasn't some victimless, petty thing. It's creating more needless work for the cleaners, who have quite enough to do. Well done your son.

I find this response astonishing. The class had been told by the teacher to report if they saw anyone carrying out a specific negative action. The OP's son did exactly what had been asked by the teacher, who in a school environment is the person with authority and should be respected.

He should be praised.

I can't believe you, on the other hand, would have been annoyed if your child had actually done what the teacher asked.

No wonder we have discipline problems in schools and a general selfish attitude in society of people doing what they think advantages themselves the most and ignoring what's best for the community.

Someone's got to clean up the loo roll which takes time, plus the expense of all the extra loo roll used. It may be a minor expense in one school, but all over the country it adds up to a significant totally unnecessary expense.

It's also a lesson to children to choose their friends wisely. Naughty children chucking loo roll at the ceiling can turn into anti social teenagers graffitiing and worse.
I always told my children when they were young not to hang round with the naughty ones, they'd end up being dragged in and could get into trouble. Luckily they both chose wisely and were friends with the well-behaved clever ones.

I have 3 very strict rule followers as DCs, nothing like myself or my siblings growing up. They would tell and be proud of sticking to the rules. They have been taught to follow the rules especially at school.

At home though I’m not interested in telltailing on siblings, they sort their disagreements out unless someone break a hard and fast rule.

My oldest 2 are at an age where they are starting to push boundaries and figure certain things for themselves or if they aren’t sure they come to me. My oldest wanted to tell the school something that happened before the summer holidays but didn’t want to be a “grass” so came to me to figure it out. In the end I made the decision as an adult and I told the school so that she didn’t have to

Some of you must have been unbearable at school!

Of course it is easily possible for the vast majority of children of this age, to distinguish ethically between situations where telling a teacher is essential (when someone is being hurt for example) and situations where it makes little difference (like chewing gum in class, passing innocent notes etc. )

It really isn't a difficult concept for most people to grasp, that there is a difference between reporting someone for murder, and for damp loo roll on a ceiling.

It's like saying, let him have smarties today and he'll be shooting up crack before the month's out. No he won't.

OP, I would definitely tell him not to tell tales in this circumstance. It will lose him friends and nobody will gain very much.

Would you stay friends with someone who reported you for this, or similar? I wouldn't have.

(But perhaps a lot of the Mumsnetters saying it's good to report everything were perfect little angels, so the situation never arose).

So you’re saying you’d tell your child to ignore a specific instruction from the teacher?

When I was 10 a snitch got me into trouble for something I hadnt done. I wont go into details but the resulting fallout altered my entire personality and outlook on the world. I have since then loathed and despised snitches. Especially workplace snitches. The kind of backstabber who will go to a manager and whine that you misgendered someone, came back 10 minutes late from lunch, or nipped out for a quick smoke.

If you are really honest you can deal with these kinds of situations and minor rule breaking by saying "Look this is against the rules. I wont say anything this time . But if it happens again I will have to report it." This is being up front and giving the person a chance to amend their behaviour.

There is a basic arrogance in snitching in that the snitch is setting themselves up as the arbiter of the rules for everybody else. By kowtowing to management they hope to curry favour. If only they knew how managers despise and distruct snitches, I once had a snitch on my staff and the atmosphere was dreadful. No one would speak to the person and there was a lot of name calling. Eventually I persuaded her to ask for a transfer on personal grounds.

The boss said "I think youve made the right decision here. These people are sometimes useful to management in that they bring things to our attention that we might miss. But no one really trusts or respects a snitch. They cause a toxic atmsphere on a small staff with everynody watching their back and no one trusting anyone."

The only time I snitched in a workplace was for a dreadful case of bullying of one person by a group. It was gross misconduct and so serious it went right to the top of the organization.

DD's school told them not to 'tell tales' (when she was 7/8).

That was why it took her a few weeks to tell me a neighbour's teenage son had tried to persuade her to take off her clothes so he could take photos of her naked. Because she didn't want to 'tell tales'. OTOH she found it very troubling, so in the end did tell me, thank goodness.

Of course children should speak up about wrongdoing. Then the adults can assess what needs to be done - a minor verbal warning, or something more serious. Children shouldn't have to carry the burden of deciding how serious it is.

I think the problem there is inflexible management. Not the people who speak up - possibly fed up with the person who is continually 'only' 10 minutes late back from their lunch break or 'nipping out' for a fag leaving the non smokers covering for them.

I would probably say don't snitch, but if you're asked don't lie.

Someone needs to clean the ceiling. Presumably the 'don't snitch' posters are volunteering to clean up.

There is a reason why pupils are told not to do that (and report anyone who does). Because someone needs to clean it up. And that time could be spent more usefully elsewhere, if pupils didn't do it. It costs money in staff time.

I don't think 'covering for your mates' is a good lesson for a little kid to learn – the offences will only potentially get more serious in nature as they grow up. Maybe loo roll throwing kid will realise that he won't have many friends left if he continues to do dumb and destructive things.

I'm one of those people who in the past has to remove hardened tissue from a ceiling, at school. I used to clean at a school, which is a bloody physical job, made worse by little gits throwing wet tissue onto the ceiling. I caught a child doing it once, got a broom and made him clean it off!! It taught him a lesson and he never did it again. Sorry, but your son did do the right thing. It might be trivial, but some poor person had to spend time scrapping that crap off the ceiling, probably whilst cursing the little cherub who did it! The child at 9 knows right from wrong, and knows perfectly well he shouldn't have done it.

She might have been malicious, or she might have been autistic. If she was autistic, her need to be honest and to stick to the rules, and her inability to cope with rule breaking would have driven her to it. If she was not able to read social cues or had poor social communication as well, which is the case by the sound of it, then it really shows autistic traits. So does the lack of friends. As her teacher, did this cross your mind at the time?

Does this apply to theft, fraud, embezzlement, burglary, arson, hacking, larceny etc etc?

Does this advice apply to adults as well?