To tell my DS not to ‘snitch’

[Griffalo123]

My DS (9) came home upset from school as a friend of his was angry with him.

My DS found his friend throwing wet tissue onto the ceiling of the school loos, and told a teacher, resulting in the friend getting in trouble (they’d been told to tell a teacher if they saw this happening).

As the friend wasn’t hurting anyone as such (I appreciate it isn’t good for the building/someone has to clear it up) I said perhaps he shouldn’t have told the teacher, and maybe saying to his friend it’s not a good thing to do would’ve been better.

My DH said he did exactly the right thing.

My mother said he should absolutely not have told on his friend.

I know the right thing is to say something, but in reality, what would you have told your child?

Interested in other opinions to see if I was being unreasonable and how to navigate this going forward!

Thanks.

We’ve always asked the kids to think about it. It teaches them what’s a “big” thing and what isn’t. We used examples at home, they were at that age where they run and tell tales constantly and generally we said if it isn’t directly hurting or upsetting you then it’s unlikely to be a big issue.

So at school this falls into that but if someone was being bullied or hit at school then it’s ok to tell.

It's a tricky balance. I wouldn't necessarily tell him which was right and wrong because I'd be more interested in how he feels about it. He's upset because his friend is angry with him for telling, right? How did he feel when his friend was doing the annoying/bad thing? What made him tell - was he upset that his friend was breaking the rules or was it because he'd been told to tell? Something else? It's sometimes really difficult to tell on a friend but if the action was really upsetting because it was wrong (in his eyes) then he did exactly the right thing.

I think at 9 he probably has his own set of morals and finding it what they are is more important than policing this incident in my view. I think this is especially important with boys as you start getting into conversations about toxic masculinity and as the consequences for rule breaking and going along with rule breaking get more serious. When does he want to cover for a friend Vs stick up for what's right?

I would say to your son this specific situation is one that divides people and use that to have a talk about how much he thinks we should police each other/ report to the authorities etc. He's getting to an age where he can start thinking about those sorts of judgements - it's constantly something we are facing in a society and always will.

I (a teacher) feel sorry for DS being put in that position and appreciate that he wanted to do the right thing, but I think you are right. It’s not as if the friend was doing something that actively hurt another child or caused criminal damage - he was 'just' being immature and stupid (and, I know, creating extra work for someone). It would be different if the silly boy was not your DS's friend.

I would encourage your DS, if a similar situation arises in the future, to tell the perpetrator how stupid DS thinks they are being, and perhaps that if it happens again he will tell the teacher.

I think supporting friends even if you think/know they are wrong can, depending on the circumstances, be an honourable thing to do.

This thread is a depressing example of he current state of parenting that has led to schools trying to deal with awful behaviour not backed up by the parents.

Encouraging your child not to snitch is encouraging bystander behaviour. It doesn't take long for kids to apply this to other scenarios where someone is 'not actually hurt.' Like calling other children names, breaking or stealing their stuff etc.

You are also setting the seeds for your child to prioritise their friends, despite their poor behaviour, over their own conscience. Your child clearly told the teacher as they felt uncomfortable with what his friend did. By saying 'you don't snitch on friends' you are telling your child to ignore their discomfort and prioritise their friends above their own feelings.

@Miffylou
your attitude just shows what teachers think of the school cleaners and caretakers who have to pick up on the extra work .
It might not be criminal damage but I guess the £1000+ bills for damage/extra cleaning means nothing to the school or tax payers.

I think he did the right thing here. A minority of pupils messing about in the toilets, usually means that use of the toilets becomes restricted to all pupils as the school try to find out who's doing it. It's not fun only having a short allotted time during the school day when you're allowed to have a wee!

What happens when they get to secondary age and have the shit beaten out of them for being a " grass"

Quite. It would be taken seriously at the school I work in. I’d send dc to management for such a misdemeanour and it would be dealt with by them. I’m a TA but the teachers in our school thankfully take things like that seriously also. Silly squabbles we encourage dc to deal with themselves and not come and tell an adult but not stuff like this

I would be proud of my son for doing the right thing and would tell him so. That said, I would also have a discussion with him about the social cost of doing the right thing and how sometimes the answer isn't so straight forward but that he can always tell me and we can discuss what to do if he's unsure.

What school do your children go to where they would get the shit beaten out of them and that would be okay?

I would also hope at 16 kids wouldnt be doing such childish things.

It it was damage to property they would be asked to give a statement which would be backed up by video so it wouldn’t be a problem.

It isn’t okay to lose your morals when it’s convenient.

100%. Couldn’t agree more.

^100% agree. I feel sympathy for the cleaners who will have to clean up the mess after them.

They each chose an action that had consequences they maybe weren't expecting and they will learn from that.

I don't know that the point is to impose our own way of handling every situation by putting a heavy judgement on whether he did right or wrong after it's happened. It sort of feels like sports pundits after a match. We weren't there playing it out. Even if you tell him how you think you would have handled it, it doesn't mean that suits his personality, age, this friendship, this school environment or means that he'll do it your way in future.

I think it's probably more helpful to listen to why he made the choices he did, how did he feel about seeing his friend do that and how he feels now. Just let him process it and help him understand what happened if he was confused by his friend's reaction (it's difficult to know whether he was just following the rule without understanding there could be negative consequences or if he was very aware of that but made the judgement that it was the right thing to do to help his teacher/the school).

I understand that you feel he let down his friend. But his friend also let him down by putting him in that situation where he was uncomfortable and conflicted.

It takes courage to stand up to friends. But sometimes it's important. And maybe this was important to him even if that isn't where the line is for you, he's allowed to be a different person. You've seen between you and your husband and Mumsnet that there isn't necessarily a universally correct answer.

What is good is that he's trying to do good and thinking about what that means. Just because his friend was annoyed or upset doesn't mean that it was the wrong thing to do.

Its not where my kids went its the local comps in east london where my cousins went. Canning town to be precise

And what's 16 got to do with it. They start secondary at 11

Unfortunately littering and fly tipping are quite common here. It doesn't hurt anyone, right?

Except the Council has to clean it up, and that is paid for with my Council Tax - just because it's OK, it isn't hurting anyone...

I hate filthy fly-tippers. I would be so happy to snitch on anyone I saw or knew of doing that. In fact, I’d be happy to take video evidence and report it. Any form of public vandalism is effectively stealing from your own community. Understandable but annoying when it’s kids and teens, unforgivable when it’s lazy or stingy adults.

I’d hope the police would take action against the pupils committing the assault, as they’d be over the age cf criminal responsibility.

"I am Spartacus"!!

Geez pedantic much? I choose an age at random at secondary. I’m well aware they start at 11 which would make it even worse.

Your second hand example which isn’t an actual example of a kid being beaten up for snitching isn’t exactly accurate and doesn’t negate the lack of morals and respect which is still completely wrong.

If you want to argue that a loss of morals is okay then fine, but I still don’t agree.

Oh its so hard. I wouldn't want my kids to tell on their friends for something like this. But would still want then to understand when it is right to tell on them. Which I think is impossible to explain to young children.
Really tricky one

Many of them have bloody LEFT at 16.
What is my example then? I knew of kids being beaten up for being grasses in many schools.

In your dreams. How many kids get physically bullied and no one does anything.

Or do you imagine that the police are going to arrive every time a kid has a fight at school?

You do know the definition of pedantic right? I only ask because you continue here. Again I am well aware that some kids leave at 16 and again it was an example. It doesn’t change the fact about morals or values.

In the school I'm referring to the kids have ALL left by 16