AIBU to think this tutor has an attitude?

[SoCloseToNothing1981]

First time posting on here (long-time lurker). I'm not sure what I'm looking for here tbh, maybe just a hand-hold or just (brutally) honest opinions, but I'm just feeling a bit weird about a Zoom call I had with my DS' history tutor yesterday. I might be overreacting but it's just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Me and DH decided to get DS a tutor for GCSE History. He's in Year 11 and he's had a bit of a shit time with the course. When he was choosing his options in year 9, his history teacher did recommend that he do geography instead because his essay-writing and memory surrounding dates was not good (he did roughly the same in terms of achievement in both history and geography). The thing is he is interested in it, but he just can't remember key dates very well. The thing is he wants to do history at A Level. I feel bad for him because he likes the subject, but he's just not very good at it and obviously that's problematic if he is considering this subject as a potential academic or career pathway.

So we meet this tutor and he says in our initial meeting with him that tutoring is to complement ongoing revision. I don't agree with this because I view tutoring as teaching my DS how to revise. The tutor says that he likes to do a baseline assessment with the students so he can determine their areas they need work on, which again I found a bit overkill because why are you already testing DS when you haven't taught him how to revise yet?? We scheduled a lesson for later that week, but DS was running a little bit late as he'd woken up late so we only had 30 minutes of a lesson with the tutor (it's all done on Zoom). DS thought he had been working on the Cold War that week in school and so the tutor set him some questions on the Cold War. DS, bless him, really struggled with the first question so didn't have time to look at the rest of the questions. The tutor ran through the questions with DS, and that was when DS realised he hadn't actually done the Cold War and he'd gotten the name confused with something else.

The tutoring has been going on for 2 months, and the tutor scheduled a Zoom call with me to basically tell me that we may want to reconsider choosing History as an A Level option. This really caught me off guard, and it came across as him telling me how to parent my child! He said that there are loads of issues regarding essay-writing and analysing sources and interpretations, and whilst he is totally happy to support DS with this he can't ignore the fact that if these skills aren't being mastered in Year 11 history then this is going to severely set DS back when he starts Year 12. I ask the tutor about what revision methods he has taught DS, and the tutor said that the subject knowledge is a key area of weakness, and DS apparently said to him that he doesn't make notes in the lessons because his teacher isn't good. I said to the tutor that I think DS just needs to be taught how to create his own quizzes, and how to create flashcards and mindmaps. The tutor said that with mocks coming up those "knowledge gaps" need to be filled in. But I'd prefer him to prioritise teaching DS how to revise history, and if I'm asking for a particular service surely I should receive it?

So, AIBU to think this tutor has a bit of an attitude and is overstepping the mark a bit? I don’t need him to tell us which subjects DS should or shouldn’t do at sixth form, I just want him to teach DS how to revise properly!

You and the tutor are talking at cross purposes. You’re right that knowing how to revise is a skill and can be taught. But actually some of what you’re describing isn’t revising anyway, it’s learning things for the first time. Your son’s tutor’s speech at the start of the sessions was just him saying your son needs to listen and learn in class, revise by himself and use his tutoring sessions. His point was that tutoring is not a replacement for class or for independent revision work at home. Students can’t slack off in class, bring all their homework to tutoring sessions and then blame the tutor when they don’t do well. It’s unreasonable of you to think the tutor is wrong to explain this because you really wanted some help for your son with methodology. Did you tell the tutor this at the time? Or just stew on it for weeks without communicating?

Your son absolutely needs to be taking notes in class! Why isn’t this happening? Has he not made the leap between being told what to write down and deciding what to record himself? Again, this is a skill that can be taught but your child’s history tutor would not have known this is the issue until your son mentioned it and he also may or may not be experienced in teaching kids this kind of methodological skill - he may not have tutored kids with this issue before.
The way your son is mixing up historical events suggests he’s not making links between different historical events. So the Cold War probably would not have happened without the Second World War, for example.

As a general bit of advice, if a student just scrapes in to the schools GCSE requirements to sit an A level they are not going to do well at that A level. This thread is obviously for maths but the same applies to other subjects. It is possible to look up from past results the statistics on getting a level grades from GCSE results
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/5146609-yearly-warning-not-to-take-a-level-maths-with-less-than-a-7-at-gcse?page=1

Unfortunately no amount of revision techniques will compensate for giant gaps in knowledge. Like not knowing what the Cold War is. You can’t mindmap your way out of that.

It’s the big knowledge gaps that need to be tackled to make the most difference to his grade.

The tutor sounds great. A baseline assessment is necessary to determine strengths/weaknesses. So you can make the most use of time.

It’s up to you if you want ignore his good advice.

I'm a bit lost. How can he revise what he hasn't already learnt?

I would put money on OP updating later that the tutor now completely agrees with her, is really grateful for the mind map and will now tutor for free.

Or something else that didn't happen.

Are you a teenage boy writing this about your desire to do history? Cant imagine any parent actually behaving like this.

Forgot to quote;

arcticpandas · Today 08:29
As a side note ** you don't need a tutor to teach your son to do quizzes etc. Chatgpt will do that for him in a second.

MatchaMatchaMatcha · Today 08:33
He shouldn't go near chatgpt. He needs to learn how to engage and think for himself, chatgpt will reinforce the opposite

I totally agree but it was the OP who wished that the tutor should help DS with how to do flash cards and quizzes. Those are no brainers and chatgpt can sort those out. Ofcourse this won't lead to a deeper understanding nor with critical thinking but it doesn't sound like that's what the OP wants for her child. This makes me think that OP hasn't finished a higher education herself and is therefore not in a position to neither tell the tutor how he should be doing his job nor to guide her son with his academic future.

I can hardly believe this post is real. I tutor occasionally alongside teaching. The very first task is always a baseline assessment. I have never had a tutee late for a first lesson-if shows a complete lack of commitment and motivation.

Maybe if your son took notes and showed an interest in class he wouldn’t need a tutor. Just a thought.

So the school and an independent professional outside the school have basically said the same thing, but you aren't prepared to listen.

Well why don't you encourage him into choosing Maths/Science/English for A-levels if he's good at it? Why set him up to fail in History? It's as if I would encourage my very not sporty/athletic DS into become a PE teacher because he enjoys playing ping pong. It's just bonkers.

I mean I would not be wanting to pay a tutor to go over revision techniques. My own child had maths tutoring and it was plugging subject knowledge including covering gaps from KS3 (covid years), paired with testing, testing and more testing. She went from nowhere in maths to an 8 at GCSE.

I was rubbish at history but wanted to be good at it. I have no memory for dates or details and am better at concepts and thinking creatively. But I wanted to have an overview of the world....and was also trying to impress a boy!

I took it at A level and got a C, my lowest grade. I enjoyed doing research and did well in my personal study but totally failed the exams. I took a combined degree and took history in first year (glutton for punishment) My poor tutor despaired of me and I got 23% in my first year exams!
I didn't continue with history into 2nd year 😊
My brain wasn't suited to the style of learning history demands, and it took a lot of struggling for me to realise. It sounds like your DS might be similar, and it's not a failing, just a different brain. Geography is a great subject to pursue, and perhaps your son's learning style would be better suited to it?

Would you mind to elaborate please? How did Seneca help?

I just don't see why history has to be treated like some impossible subject when surely if someone knows how to revise efficiently then it's a level playing field.

I'm struck by the idea that OP has, that learning how to do mindmaps and flashcards will suddenly make everyone taking history GCSE equally able.

Her DS is competing against children like I was, who could read their notes and then recall the entire image of the page in the exam. Sadly an ability I have long since lost. Other posters have written about how they read their notes for 12 hrs a day while revising.

No mindmap is going to create a level playing field with students who already find it naturally easy, students who willingly put in hours and hours of work, and most importantly students who know what they covered in class last week and took notes.

Apparently the evidence for mindmaps is an improvement of 15%. If you are starting at a grade 4, that's just not enough.

Well hopefully you take all points from this thread on board and go in with some decency, respect and humility. Otherwise I hope he bins you off.

@SoCloseToNothing1981, what was it your son confused with the Cold War?

OP what are his predicted/ target grades in all his other subjects?

It will really help with advise on what to do further. A student that needs a tutor for GCSE (which the teacher already advised against taking!) who is struggling to get a 5 is not an Alevel candidate.

Scraping a 6 in English does not mean he's good at it. And, tbh, it doesn't sound like he's very good at Maths or Science either.

OP, a PP suggested that A levels may not be the best course for him. Let alone keeping on trying, and failing, to do History GCSE.

Her DS is competing against children like I was, who could read their notes and then recall the entire image of the page in the exam. Sadly an ability I have long since lost. Other posters have written about how they read their notes for 12 hrs a day while revising.

And me. I memorised Soviet economic data. I also read a lot of historical novels, memoirs, biographies, trade histories and textbooks - for fun. All the time that kids put into social media and gaming was spent reading. I probably wouldn't be like that if I were born now, but it definitely helped.

What are his maths predictions like? Economics without a 7 I think might be a struggle. What about business studies? Is he better at course work. Would btecs be more suitable? Philosophy is very heavy on essay work and requires to be very very confident in presenting ideas clearly.

honestly, I would expect someone to have a solid 7 in a subject before doing at a level.

I've wondered this too.

What exactly does he like, OP? Is it a specific topic or, as suggested here, Horrible Histories? Because it doesn't sound like he's at all interested in the topics they're doing for GCSE.

I agree with all this.

I'm a private tutor as well, Maths and English. I do a baseline assessment with all my students, and that's industry-standard (I have a LOT of contacts in the tutoring business - we'd all look askance at a tutor who didn't do a baseline).

Everything I've quoted is above is exactly what I would also say.

You've employed a tutor because you wanted expert guidance. Now you've got that guidance, you're giving them side-eye? You didn't employ a tutor to teach study skills, you'd employed them to teach history.

We're employed to give parents occasional hard truths. You can throw all the money you like a tutor, but a hour a week just isn't going to make THAT much difference if a student is late, disorganised, and genuinely not suited to the subject.

I've just had to have a pretty hard conversation with the parent of a Year 9 boy. He's got moderate Autism and I help with his maths. In some areas of maths, his skill is reasonable, but in other areas he's working at more of a Year 3/Year 4 level. The likelihood of him being able to sit GCSEs in 2 years is, I think, close to zero. I've had to discuss long-term goals for him with that in mind, and we've made the discussion to focus more on "real life maths".
It's the job of a tutor to have these discussions. It sounds like yours is doing everything right.

But of course, if you feel like the chemistry isn't right, or you just don't like them, by all means, try someone else. Perhaps your son would get on better with face to face teaching? Is that a posibility?

The "tone" might derive from the fact that the tutor feels he's banging his head against a brick wall with both you and your son.

Disengaged pupil with virtually no subject knowledge (doesn't even know which topic he's meant to be studying!) and pushy parents is about the worst possible combination for a tutor.

Your son is crap at history, OP. That is a fact. Your denial and enabling of this is only going to make it worse for him in the long run.

I have a history degree and MA. You won't get very far in the subject if all you do is focus in revision techniques for exams. It is not like other subjects in that you revise and memorise a bunch of stuff and repeat that in exams to pass. You need to be able to analyse and interpret sources and write essays. If your son has absolutely no idea about this then he isn't going to do well in the subject at all.

Also how can he revise effectively if he doesn't even have a clue about the subject, and doesn't bother taking notes? You revise what you already know and if he doesn't know anything then it is a waste of time.