Has anyone offered to give up their seat on public transport just for being a woman?

[Spookygoose]

Was just watching this video clip of a debate about chivalry & feminism. Some guy said that he shouldn’t feel the need to give up his seat on a train for a woman, not a pregnant or elderly woman, just any woman. The other people acknowledged what he said as if this was an actual thing. Have you ever heard of this? Is it, or has it been in the last 20 years the expectation that a ‘gentleman’ should give up his seat if a woman is standing?? I have never heard of this in my life and would be seriously offended if a man ever tried to give up his seat for me just for being female!

With all the struggles women have had to be taken seriously in male dominated careers to show they can be as fit and strong as men, it is slightly insulting that there are still people who think women are so much weaker that they can't even stand up for a few minutes I think the idea is misplaced courtesy- they make not think they are being insulting m, they may not intend to be insulting, but they are.

I will excuse elderly gentlemen from judgement, but I wish they would look after themselves better as they are particularly vulnerable if there was to be an accident (or even just an unexpected movement)

Yes I have.

However, on the train last week it was busy and I was standing by the door. More and more people got on, some of whom were 2 elderly women with walking sticks, walking down the carriage looking for seats. The rest just stayed by the doors standing.

There were plenty of young and middle aged men that they passed who pretended not to see them/ignore them even when it was obvious the women were looking for somewhere to sit. It took another woman, in her 70's, who was sat with her daughter, to offer their seats to the elderly women, who then thankfully took them.

Shame on them who didn't offer seats, including many able bodied men - i only noticed as there were way more men than women on the train, maybe it was some kind of event they were going to.

I don’t see this is my area. When I was heavily pregnant the only people who offered me a seat was other women. Usually while several men were pretending to not have noticed me.

I also find it shocking when every single day at work, where pregnant women are the patients, to see women standing in the waiting room while the male accompanying partners of others are sitting, despite a sign stating that patients have priority for seating in the waiting room.

DH would always offer a seat to a women and quite happily stand. My dad and FIL also the same. Maybe it's a military thing! And yes all are Northern. I don't mind standing either.

When I was struggling off a train with a pram, many men walked passed me, a woman helped me get the pram off the train and down some steps, as I was clearly struggling. Maybe she knew what it's like and could sympathise more than others, though.

I'm 44 and I'd feel offended if someone gave up their seat for me purely on the basis I'm a woman! Patronising!!

As a young women I find that when I sit in a priority or disabled seat, I get look and judgement (so I tru and wear my hidden disability lanyard and the tube badge) as otherwise people, often older people start questioning me quite aggressively and disputing my disability. However, I think most of the time able bodied men and women are all tired, and if I wasn't disabled and I'm.need of seat, I wouldn't expect any man to get up and give me their seat - I don't think this is taught anymore, and that men in my generation would do this. Obviously certain people need seats more, disabled people and the elderly and after them pregnant women and possibly children.

Also you cannot always tell who is able bodied and who isn't, I'm sure the majority of the men you saw were, but some may have their own hidden disabilities, so I'd try and notice that before jumping to the conclusion that they should have gotten up. Sometimes I don't and people ask me to, and then I explain and they dispute my issues which is just rude and I cannot stand for most journeys and it's not a good thing for me to give up my seat, as I cannot.

Ive been offered a seat a few times when pregnant or with my baby and 5 year old. I wouldn’t expect it otherwise. I’m an able bodied 40 year old. Perhaps it will happen more often when I’m older as people will think I’m about to die

It used to be a common thing to do, no-one even thought about it. My DH and my dad would still give up their seat for a standing woman, it's good manners 🤷‍♀️

Well said. Also agreed that elderly gentlemen get a free pass, it’s how they were brought up and I find it quite endearing sometimes. However, it’s ridiculous if you actually think about it - that a wobbly, spindly-legged 80-year-old man with arthritis in both knees should stand for a strong, fit 30-year-old woman. Where is the logic and ‘manners’ in that?

As someone older than you, I'd say you need to work on your strength and fitness levels rather than expect other people to be doing things for you. If you don't have any underlying health issues, it's rather concerning you can't cope with doors on your own. Doesn't bode well for old age.

Why? Unless you have a disability or illness I don’t see why you’d struggle with doors at 55. Perhaps do some strength training?

DH held a door open at a restaurant for a lady once and got ranted at about how she didn't need a MAN! to do it for her! I would have slammed it in her face but he's such a gentleman it wouldn't occur to him. He just stood open mouthed at her tirade.

I do have an illness, @cheesycheesy and @Justthethingsthatyoudointhisgarden but many women do- far more women than men are impacted by health issues like auto immune problems, though not necessarily to the point of disability.
My point stands that men are stronger and have more stamina than women in equivalent situations, and so could spare a little to ease the day along.

When a young man grabbed my case and carried it down the stairs, the ease with which he did it contrasted significantly with my wrestling match. The extra couple of inches height and the strength made all the difference.

Edited as forgot to quote so will tag instead: @Hayley1256
Your example is totally different to offering a woman a seat. The man helping you with your suitcase might not have done it based on gender - it’s kind & helpful for anyone to offer anyone help who’s struggling with a heavy bag. And even if it was based on gender, there’s a logical reason for it, as a man, it’s likely he was stronger than you and therefore could carry the bag down the stairs more easily. In that situation I’d be grateful of an offer of help too and wouldn’t be in the slightest bit offended, because, as I said above, there’s a logical reason behind it. Where is the logic in offering a seat to someone based purely on them being female? No one’s pretending men aren’t generally stronger and have more muscle mass, but I wasn’t aware that meant they were better at standing than women! It doesn’t show manners, if it showed manners that same man would give up his seat to men & women equally. It shows a misogynistic mindset. He THINKS he is being well-mannered but it actually shows that he thinks women are so weak they can’t stand up for a few minutes. I wonder how he thinks these women get to the bus stop, if they’re so weak they can’t stand how can they possibly walk?! Back in the day it was good manners, as boys were brought up to think of women as the weaker sex in every way, and that it was their duty to protect them etc. Boys are not brought up like that anymore so if a man younger than about 50 offers a woman a seat it’s more likely to be because he has outdated views on women, than ‘good manners’, regardless of his (probably good) intentions.

The last time I did offer my seat on public transport to someone my own age and opposite gender (I am male) I was called a patronising twat.

So, that discouraged that possible trait out of me.

I travel on the tube daily and though men generally don't get up for women they do seem to be aware if someone is struggling and will give up their seat.

If I am travelling with my older husband they mostly offer him and me a seat ! I think people are quite aware ime anyway.

@myplace With respect, you are describing your specific situation as if it applies to all women - that you have an illness that affects your strength. The majority of young & middle-aged women do not have this illness and are more than capable of standing on the bus. It’s also not accurate that men have more stamina than women. Men may be more powerful, but women have better long-term stamina and endurance. I’ve also never heard of anyone who’s not elderly or suffering from an illness needing stamina to stand on a bus. Also, a man helping a woman who’s struggling with a heavy suitcase is not the same thing as a man standing for a woman who doesn’t need him to, on public transport

Most women are less strong than most men. Given the same daily challenges, women are likely to be more tired than men. That’s all I’m saying.
It’s ok to disagree, as you do.

There's still a disconcerting double standard about when it comes to older people, with elderly women referred to as "little old ladies" in need of protection and consideration, while their male peers are more likely to be referred to as "old geezers" who don't seem to elicit the same chivalry. Many are "little old gentlemen" with a similarly fragile look to them as many women of the same age, so one can only imagine that the difference in attitude is less about need than a view (however subconscious) that men have no business showing vulnerability. This comes from younger women and men; I wonder if the latter have given any thought as to who will make space for them when they need it?

You seem to have such an issue with a man wanting to be nice to a woman. Of course it would be strange for a man to ask another similar age man if they want a seat. I would say the same about a woman asking a similar age woman if they needed a seat.

There are so many rules in life about how people are allowed to interact, surely being nice to someone is about as low down the list of issues that it really isnt worth getting so angry about it.

I was just about to comment on this sort of thing.

I rarely catch the train and never the bus so there isn't much opportunity for it to happen but it has a few times.

If it's an older man, I always thank them but tell them I'm OK because I am.

I'm 51 so young 😉, fit and healthy. I don't need anyone's seat but I wouldn't be rude. It's just unnecessary.

I've had men offer to carry things for me. If they're offering just because they're an empty handed man and I'm a hands full woman, I don't accept but there have been a few times I've accepted if I'm carrying something really heavy. And I've really appreciated it.

I would offer my seat or any assistance to someone who genuinely looked like they needed it more than I did, male or female, it just makes the world turn a little more smoothly.

I'm 58 and yes it was the done thing. Men gave up seats I would say mainly because the women were usually knee deep carrying kids and bags of groceries. There were no home deliveries and you couldn't take prams on bus unless folded.

I’m not angry lol. Just a quiet day!
I don’t have an issue with men being nice to women, I have an issue with men being patronising to women and treating them as if they are incapable of standing up for short periods of time. It’s ridiculous. They might think they are being “nice” but I would find it laughable if it happened to me. If you think the motivation is just “being nice” then why wouldn’t they offer the seat to other men. Men can’t be nice to other men? It’s not nice, it’s either embarrassingly old-fashioned chivalry or motivated by finding the woman attractive. Maybe women over 50 are more likely to see it as nice as perhaps there was a little more of it when they were younger? I don’t know. I’m mid 30s and, as I said in my OP, didn’t even know this was a ‘thing’ until the other day

I was on a train quite a few years ago, maybe 18 or 19 years, and it was quite crowded and more were coming on and a group of very loud lads, chav types, stood up and shouted that there were seats for all the ladies, and they all stood by the luggage rack for the rest of the journey drinking beer (except one, who drank whisky out of a cut glass tumbler) and carried on chatting loudly. One shared his beer with me, which was nice.

The only time when I really needed a seat was when ! was 8 months, and very obviously pregnant, on a bus going down to an antenatal appointment in Manchester. The bus was full of male students - so18-22? Not one offered a seat. Parenting was obviously amiss in the 80s.

But that was decades ago. When I travel on the tube I am surprised how different it now is. I have also lost count of the times men ( often young men) have offered me a seat. When I travel on a bus with a grandchild/ baby or toddler I have always been offered a seat by men and women. I find people in London to be very helpful on the whole.