Where are the trans men?

[BlueandPinkSwan]

Just that really, we are always hearing about men wanting to 'become women'. Phycially, mentally and emotionally impossible, but why aren't women rushing to do the same thing in reverse?
Just interested to know as I'm gender critical, and hate the patriarcal society we live in.
Is it because men wouldn't accept it as a trans man being part of their tribe but women are forced to put up with trans women invading /trying to enter into woman only spaces?

Well I know two personally so they do exist.

They are. I know three

There are also trans men. I know 2. But no one is getting upset about their existence. I guess they are seen as posing no risk to anyone. Men aren't threatened by them. Women don't care. Meanwhile some seem to think trans women pose a risk to other women. And I guess some men fear they might accidently fancy someone who was a man.

Anyway, all in all, no one is making a lot of noise about them and they are just busy existing.

I think they are, it’s just they 1) aren’t a physical threat to men; 2) aren’t stealing medals and awards from men; 3) aren’t as threatening and spiteful as TIMs when they don’t get their way or when boundaries are asserted. So, they just don’t draw attention to themselves. In short, women who identify as men quietly go about their business with less harmful impact on men or women. On the other hand, men who identify as women commit crimes at the same rate as men, are in jail for proportionally more sex offences than non-trans men and never stop demanding more and more access to everything including cervical smears and women’s health meet ups in libraries. So, trans identifying women don’t bother most of us in the slightest. It’s the men letting everyone down with their behaviour.

Females in general don't pose a risk to males.
Males do pose a risk to females.
That's why the political discussion focuses on men in women's spaces and not the other way around.

I also know two. One had surgery quite young.

They are absolutely around but, as women, they haven't grown up with the male entitlement that a lot of transwomen seem to have renouncing so are entirely nicer to be around.

This is it, they don't need to broadcast the fact that they are trans men. I work with one and they [can't think of M as a her/she] are one of the nicest people I know.
Blends in and goes about life quietly and doesn't wave the placard.
Men on the other hand act like total knobs about it.

I know one very well, a couple slightly and know of several more (via a game site, they feel safe there to 'be themselves').

Most trans women are also quiet about it and want to blend in, obviously you only hear and notice the loud ones and then stereotype them all based on that.

This

I think girls are certainly rushing. Adolescent girls vastly outnumber boys at gender clinics. Dr Hilary Cass:

"“So about 15 years ago, the service was seeing perhaps 50 predominantly birth registered boys in childhood. And over the last 10 years or so it’s switched to over 3,000 young people, and it’s mainly birth-registered girls presenting in early teens … often with quite complex additional problems.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/what-cass-review-says-about-surge-in-children-seeking-gender-services

I can't find figures for over 18s presenting at adult gender identity clinics for the first time. Maybe someone else can help.

Anecdotally, in my own cultural (music/art) circles, there's a lot of female they/thems. I suspect they feel it gives them greater authority and respect than being a boring female. I know a couple of female he/hims with mastectomies taking T. I find the performative masculinity tiresome, but it's early days and they may settle into it and become less extreme. I try to think of them as adolescent boys finding their feet - even though some of the observations they make, about the differences between men and women, sound like a 1970s observational comic.

Privately, I have quite a visceral reaction to what they've done, as I feel they've identified out of womanhood because of internalised misogyny and ageism, and possibly autism. But better a reborn Peter Pan than a menopausal hag, eh?

I don't really know what you mean. They exist. Is it just that you haven't met any?

So you...do know they exist?

So the "where ARE they" bullshit angle was a thinly veiled way to bash transwomen disguised as faux innocence

Again.

There are loads of trans men and boys about (and a whole lot of girls and women who identify as non-binary). We probably don’t hear or see as much about them as they don’t tend to try and dominate men’s spaces, nor do they turn up at women’s events and spray piss around to intimidate women. They tend to have a very different profile to the middle aged men that identify as women. Their motivations for ‘transitioning’ tend to be quite different too.

Is this the trans debate equivalent of NAMALT?

but why aren't women rushing to do the same thing in reverse?

They are 🤷‍♀️

There are at least 3 transmen where I work. They've all transitioned while working for the organisation and announced it, so there could well be more who joined post-transition and ID'd male from the start of their employment.

There are two people I sometimes see at head office that I really couldn't say whether they ID as male or female, but I can't say it bothers me. They have gender neutral names and should I ever need to refer to them in the 3rd person, I'd opt for the neutral they/them.

It’s still NAMALT! Just in a different outfit.

I know of one who actually passes quite well if you didn't know. Balding with some facial hair.
They are quite and just get on with life. women don't notice because they are not threatened, they are not looking closely at the fairly short male in day to day life, who is certainly not doing anything to draw attention.
Men are quite unobservant and also don't notice. My husband is oblivious that the short father at pick up was actually a female.
I think with trans women they often go in pushing for what they want displaying male arrogance . Women who present as men still have many female personality traits that allow them to just quietly get on with it without pushing or yelling about it?
Maybe someone can contradict me on this? But I don't get the feeling trans men are actually a threat to anyone or trying to force themselves on others in quite the same way as transwomen.
Transwomen do in fact pose a massive risk to biological women and also very rarely pass. Women also look a bit closer at other females.

they're around, mostly minding their own business. i know several, two are good/close friends, and socially i know maybe 5-10 more, i know some who you wouldn't know were bio female unless they told you, they look, and sound, completely male.. muscles, beards, the lot.. and some that in transition look more like teen boys even though they're in their 20s.

On a whole, despite transitioning, they still blend better into femme heavy social situations, and those you KNOW are transmen aren't seen as threatening or a nuisance.

I know an equal number of transwomen, and while the majority just want to get on with it.. they're largely people that have to announce they're trans and they're noisier about making sure people know, and get more vocally upset when they're misgendered.

I know two.
There was a thread about one fairly recently here www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5281525-transman-tries-to-join-female-and-non-binary-space?page=6

I know plenty of trans men

and women

can’t say I’ve ever felt threatened by either. I think it’s disgusting how people are speaking about them personally

No, it is because you live in the mumsnet echo chamber, so that is all you hear about.

There are loads of trans men. Natural men dont care.

They're right there. You may have misread them as butch lesbians, or just not realised because of the effect of testosterone.

They are sadly making demands of gay men - see 'boxer ceiling.'

Difference between them and transwomen is they are less likely to pose a danger to the opposite sex.

And less likely to bulldoze them in sports.