Gender swap situation

[TenThousandYears]

I know you're all probably fed up hearing about this subject...I just need to vent.

DD has been friends with "Sally" for 10 years. (Both 14) Since nursery. In the last few months Sally has decided to change gender and now wants to be called " Ron"

DD just can't wrap her head around this. If she slips up, she gets nasty looks from "Ron" and so she's treading on eggshells.

Ron's brother still refers to Ron as Sally so DD is very confused by it all.

I'm on DDs side. Personally, I would hate to be in her shoes right now. I think if you meet someone and are introduced to them as whomever then that's easier to accept than having to change names and pronouns of someone you've been friends with for 10 years. On TV shows people just accept this straight away and move on but I'm not convinced that it's really that easy.

I also think 14 is a bit young for these changes but that's just my personal opinion.

Are me and my child horrible people for not being able to accept this right away?

One of my childhood best friends changed their name. It’s been probably 10 years now. I can’t do it. It just doesn’t stick. So I use them interchangeably based on how hard I am trying to remember. They don’t care.

And a woman was raped on an NHS ward by a man with a trans identity and was gaslit by the police that it couldn't have happened because there was no 'man' on the ward.

Nice to know that the safety and dignity and consent of female children is 'not something that worries you.'

The school in question does not offer the girls and alternative, it puts the male child first.

Not the correct pronouns but the ones Ron wants others to use.
Basically, if she wants to remain friends in the short term at least she has to go along with it.

Just call Sally Ron until Sally doesn't want to be Ron.

It's ridiculous.

The male child is and will always be male.

He has been taught that his identity trumps consent.

It's a dangerous lie. This is why pronouns/ social transition is not a neutral act.

We should not teach children to disregard boundaries because of gender identiy. We should not be calling children who tell the truth unkind or bigots.

@ninjahamster

I’ll correct this for you.

"I’ve offered a solution. I have been an inpatient in hospitals several times with trans women biological men on my ward with no issues. It is not something that worries me but if girls are upset that trans girls biological boys are in their changing room, then surely the answer is another changing area for the trans girls biological boys?

Don’t we already have these facilities they are called the boys changing room.

You do not consent for me or other women and girls.

The boy with the she pronouns will say it's 'outing' when they are the only person changing in there.

In any event it's not offered.

So what should the girls do?

Ok. Well we are never going to agree are we!

I think go with this. She sounds very attention seeking so I would just tell your dd to distance a bit.

Yanbu but in a small school your dd needs to tread very carefully. Dead-naming her friend, if it appears deliberate, will only cause massive social problems for your dd.

I think your dd could say to her friend “I’m trying really hard, but sometimes I slip up because our whole life you’ve been Sally to me, and whilst you’ve had ages to adjust to the idea that now you’re going to be Ron, I’m still catching up. To me, you’re just my best friend like you’ve always been. I need to get my mouth to catch up with my brain so please don’t be sad or cross, let me have some space to get my head around all of this.”

Yes! Exactly! It’s so reductionist! “Oh, you have short hair and like football? You’re not doing ‘femaleness’ right, you must be a boy. Like sparkly things and singing? Definitely not suitably ‘manly’, you must be a girl.” Drives me nuts!

Dump the idiot friend. YANBU whatsoever

I think all the kids in Sally Ron’s class should change their names and pronouns and see how Sally Ron handles it.

Yeah. It was kind of out of the blue. As far as I'm aware. The child kept it to them self until they spoke to their therapist. That's when the parents were informed.

I wouldn’t spend too much brain energy on this. Next week Ron, will be Silver who is genderless and is a they. Then it will change again.

In my day we put a safety pin through an ear/nose and some gel to see who could do the tallest mohawk. These days, it’s all Ron and Silver until they grow out of the teenage rebellious phase. The worst we had was an odd little scar here and there from a self-piercing gone wrong and the embarrassment of looking back on some photos. The ‘worst’ they have now is puberty blockers, hormones and bits and pieces chopped off.

Unisex changing rooms for teenagers? You cannot be serious.
Cann you seriously not think past the trans ally stance to see the safe guarding issues these pose? Not least because they wouldn’t be legal.

Safe guarding of teenagers is an adults responsibility. You can't give the choice of undressing in front of the opposite sex to teenagers. JFC!

Why the fuck do I need a gender identity? I accept that I’m a woman because I cannot change that and the people who think they can are delusional, and accept the body I have and that it gave me my children. But I expect my sex to have nothing to do with my work life, to be able to wear what I like to work within modern professional dress boundaries and there is no gender to my role- but there is acknowledgement that women as in the female humans are a minority in my industry. Obviously i accept that as it’s reality. But I don’t have a gender identity, I prefer reading a good book or going for a run.

@HoppingPavlova 100% agree. It’s blindingly obvious this is what’s happening in the vast majority of cases.

Sounds sensible

Its been proven that mixed sex changing rooms increase attacks on women. Why do women need to be put at increased risk exactly?

Alongside single space is my solution. Free choice.

I would let my child know that it's OK for a friendship not to last forever, that sometimes a friendship which has worked can stop working, and that it's OK to step away if the price of a friendship becomes too high, which is a thing that commonly happens in adolescence. It doesn't have to mean forever, it might just be temporary, or it might not be, and that's OK.

The two of them just aren't that well suited as friends right now. It happens.

If your DD is in the same friend group, perhaps your DD could just stop referring to Sally at all? Its a very difficult position you DD has found herself in. Very unfair of her friend to expect instant change and to treat her poorly because of the choice Sally has made. Personally I think Sally perhaps isn't as good a friend as your DD thinks and I would encourage her to spread her wings a little if at all possible, and explore other friendships. Just out of interest, are any of the rest of the friendship group struggling with the change? Your DD is also entitled to her own view and doesn't need to conform to someone elses.

But why? Who does that help? It doesn't help women, obviously.

Wow, that’s a massive red flag. Poor Sally.