Gender swap situation

[TenThousandYears]

I know you're all probably fed up hearing about this subject...I just need to vent.

DD has been friends with "Sally" for 10 years. (Both 14) Since nursery. In the last few months Sally has decided to change gender and now wants to be called " Ron"

DD just can't wrap her head around this. If she slips up, she gets nasty looks from "Ron" and so she's treading on eggshells.

Ron's brother still refers to Ron as Sally so DD is very confused by it all.

I'm on DDs side. Personally, I would hate to be in her shoes right now. I think if you meet someone and are introduced to them as whomever then that's easier to accept than having to change names and pronouns of someone you've been friends with for 10 years. On TV shows people just accept this straight away and move on but I'm not convinced that it's really that easy.

I also think 14 is a bit young for these changes but that's just my personal opinion.

Are me and my child horrible people for not being able to accept this right away?

So Elagabalus is on this list, but we’ve dealt with him. Sylvia Rivera and Marsha Johnson don’t fit your criteria either (in any respect, being gay male drag artists). Start to dig into a few more, and you’ll find the evidence that they match up to your criteria is very thin or nonexistent. If it ends up all boiling down largely to a few people in the period 1880-1960 in France, Berlin and London, what does that tell you about “trans”?

It’s almost as if people can put any old nonsense that fits their belief system on Wkipedia, the online resource that’s widely known for being inaccurate and reflecting contemporary historical biases. Funny, that!

How do you account for historical cultures in India surrounding hijra? Do they have free choice to become hijra? Are there any other reasons why their culture is like it is? Can you tell us in what ways caste and religion intersect with the way hijra are thought of in India? You haven’t told us yet about your own research on this. Where in India did you go? How many people did you speak to?

you have truly exhausted me with this.

I’m amazed at your stamina, to be honest.

I, however, am a middle aged woman who has given birth. I can go any distance you like.

Tbf, you provided the examples of some of these sort of people.

Right. I’m out. There was a somewhat substantive exchange earlier but we have descended into “trans people are all gross, hyper- sexual, homophobic, dangerous , perverts, and I’m not interested in hearing anything else” territory, and engaging with this sort of poison is neither not a good use of my time, nor good for my mental health.

The other thing here is the flip.

Women are supposed to accept there are NO transwomen who are like this.

The reality proven in stats is that females are simply not like this. Whereas males are and transwomen not only retain offending rates of males, but the prison population points to higher rates in transwomen.

This is a deeply difficult thing to just ignore. We don't want to tar all transwomen like this, but equally this pattern means it's not ok to ignore it either.

The definition of a phobia is an unfounded and irrational fear - the trouble here is that the data points to a legitimate concern that no one wants to admit to.

This then means we turn to conversations about how many women is an acceptable level of collateral damage. The point of human rights is primarily to prevent harm to individuals, so this is very relevant indeed. And that's the caveat in balancing all human and equality rights - you can't do harms to other groups.

It's the elephant in the room about the things we are 'not allowed to talk about' are the very things that we should be talking about. Even if they are inconvenient.

You’ve given birth? Wow! All hail!

Women are supposed to accept there are NO transwomen who are like this.

@RedToothBrush have you ever heard anyone say that? Because it seems like a colossal leap to me. Anyone who follows the news knows that unfortunately some transwomen do behave like this.

Hmm. An academic giving a thoroughgoing recommendation for Wikipedia. What next, having AI write for them?

Are there any less reliable sources? Pink News, maybe.

I hope you don’t mean me - I certainly didn’t! I don’t think Tandora is an academic.

That is exactly my point. We are supposed to be there aren't any creepy weirdos who claim to be transwomen.

That's the elephant in the room we are not supposed to notice.

For every 'nice' trans person, unfortunately there are the grifters who ruin for everyone.

That's over the line. You don't get to call someone a TRA (or call them anything else for that matter) based solely on whatever twisted interpretation you choose to put on their words.

Saying a poster is a trans rights activist when they’re fervently posting in support of trans rights is a twisted interpretation? “Over the line”? But you’re going about making sarcastic posts and that’s OK?

See point about sense of humour failure again…and add “likes to dish it out but can’t take it”.

'Fervently posting in support of trans rights'? I think your reading comprehension skills may need a bit of work. If you disagree, here's a little test for you: try finding ONE example on this thread of my having stated ANY opinion either pro or anti trans rights. No, you can't, can you, because the ONLY thing I have been calling out on this thread is the arrogance and inability of some posters to accept points of view that aren't theirs. This imaginary link you have drawn between my calling out arrogance and being a TRA is exactly that - imaginary, based on nothing except the fact that I am not voicing active intolerance towards trans people. Quite ironic really given that you were the one using the words 'pretendy fantasy' upthread.

And yes, as it goes, I do feel it's OK for me to react with sarcasm to someone repeatedly trying to put words in my mouth and attack me over things they incorrectly perceive me to believe. Incidentally, regarding someone as not being funny, when are in fact not being funny, doesn't qualify as a 'sense of humour fail'.

I do rather wish they’d left us the laugh button, don’t you?

I had the laugh button used against me maliciously (didn't report it)

But honestly there is part of me that wishes it was still around, however we still have 😂so I don't think its too much of a loss really if you want to make the same point. You just can't be a coward when you do it. Its there for everyone to see.

But the whole point is that is doesn't matter to women how some male people do or not feel.

Women's rights should not be dependent on a man's feelings. No matter how a man/ trans woman feels about themselves should give them the right to make female people feel uncomfortable in single sex spaces.

Otherwise all you are interested is the purported harm to this subset of men and you don't give a fuck about the implications and harms of that on females.

And before you say this ignores Trans Men, female people do not pose the same risks to men.

I realise the thread has moved on since this post but it really doesn't matter why the male person thinks he is a woman. He isn't.

Crikey this thread did move on.

Elagabalus, a Roman Emperor being a trans woman, is laugh out loud funny. Even the BBC don't take that claim seriously, it's in the Entertainment and Arts section!!

And Wikipedia as a valid source Tandora, I thought you were supposed to hold a phd in gender studies?

My goodness.

marshmallowpuff · 29/06/2025 14:59

No, I wasn't addressing you! It was a response to Tandy, who said that she's an academic.

I think you live in a cave if you think these make up a huge part of the trans community.

It's impossible to know if they're a large or small group.

Perhaps understandably, the powers that be don't want to find out.

But women are being asked to accommodate these men in their spaces regardless. And we're 'bigots' for saying no to that according to some.

There is no special trans guarantee that trans identified men only have good intentions. That is manifestly not the case.

How is using the name someone chooses an issue for the OPs daughter? Why would anyone have an instinct to force a name on someone against their will?

In my experience lots of tweens or early teens choose a different version of their name or a nickname they like.

Making this a big thing isn't nice for either child.

This is a thread about a 14 year old girl who is identifying as a boy.

The conversation has moved on in many directions as you may notice if you read the whole thread.

A name is one thing but compelling a child to go against everything they know to refer to another child by wrong sex pronouns is controlling.

For anyone who wants to understand this whole topic better, this is the best and clearest piece I've seen in terms of understanding where we are and how we got here ...

https://artymorty.substack.com/p/the-war-to-annihilate-sex