Gender swap situation

[TenThousandYears]

I know you're all probably fed up hearing about this subject...I just need to vent.

DD has been friends with "Sally" for 10 years. (Both 14) Since nursery. In the last few months Sally has decided to change gender and now wants to be called " Ron"

DD just can't wrap her head around this. If she slips up, she gets nasty looks from "Ron" and so she's treading on eggshells.

Ron's brother still refers to Ron as Sally so DD is very confused by it all.

I'm on DDs side. Personally, I would hate to be in her shoes right now. I think if you meet someone and are introduced to them as whomever then that's easier to accept than having to change names and pronouns of someone you've been friends with for 10 years. On TV shows people just accept this straight away and move on but I'm not convinced that it's really that easy.

I also think 14 is a bit young for these changes but that's just my personal opinion.

Are me and my child horrible people for not being able to accept this right away?

More meaningless words.

Yes, sexuality is - or boils down to - a feeling. If I feel I am attracted to people of the same or opposite sex, that is definitive of my sexuality. That's because to feel attracted is to be attracted.

But if we consider the feelings involved in trans, things are very different. If I feel I am the opposite sex, this is only definitive of the fact that I am mistaken. It might be sad for me, but that's how things are.

Yes feelings are real. But sometimes what feelings are about aren't real.

Why would your daughter be referring to 'Ron' Sally by their name or pronoun in direct, face-to-face conversation anyway?

Do you think Ron/Sally is looking to pick a fight?

And what is it you do?

Nope. The open homophobia involved in persuading children many of who, if left alone by transactivists, would likely grow up to be gay is homophobic conversion therapy writ large. (See Cass review & Hannah Barnes book "Time to Think' for the data about this).
As an adult you can hold whatever beliefs you choose - that's your call. But you don't get to gaslight children below the age of consent and without the wisdom and experience to navigate this incoherent adult ideology, that changing sex is a good thing for them. Especially in the light of all the evidence that the majority of the children concerned have major co morbidities including eating disorders, suicidal ideation, autism and a host of ioher challenges that until now have been ignored in the face of their belief that a sex change is possible.

That's why you get so much push back on here - because you ignore all the safeguarding risks to children in favour of pushing your own beliefs that sex change is a good thing for children.
It isn't. It's a catastrophic choice to make before you've got the maturity and insight to fully appreciate the harm it will do to your physical and mental health.

Well yes if the 'doing' means imposing your belief system on others and not giving any regard on the harm to others of it.

I'll never understand how men adopting 'woman face', often in the most overtly sexualised way, is not treated in the same way as black face or any other form of appropriation.

My son, in year 6, decided he wanted to be known by his middle name instead of his first name that we’d been using for the last 11 years. Every single one of his friends managed that with no problem at all. His teachers also did it without slipping up. I occasionally forgot out of habit of using his former name but always corrected myself.

This is nothing to do with how easy it is to do it/remember it. This is purely down to your beliefs on gender, and you don’t agree with your daughter’s friend coming out as trans. You are entitled to your beliefs, just don’t try to make out it’s just too hard. If your best friend got married, you’d call her by her new married name if she choose to take her husbands surname. Likewise if she got divorced and chose to revert to a maiden name you’d use that.

Personally I’d be encouraging my child to have some empathy and support their friend right now. If calling him Ron makes him happy go with it. Encourage your child to apologise if they use the wrong name. I’m sure Ron can tell it’s transphobia otherwise. That said, if your child doesn’t want to continue the friendship because they don’t feel comfortable confiding in someone that identifies as male now, that’s their prerogative too. I’d still encourage them to use their new name.

@Tillow4everthis is not just a simple name change. False comparison.

The op said something about they couldn’t introduce themselves as x then 10 years later or whatever suddenly expect them to call them this new name. There’s the comparison.

I was just thinking that if (for the purposes of the argument) 6 stone Sally identified as fat and starved herself as a result, then she would likely be diagnosed with an eating disorder and offered treatment.

If she is white but identified as black, that would be considered completely unacceptable and she would be censured for appropriating another race and culture.

But if she were to identify as an overweight, black man, only the first two parts of that descriptor would be considered wrong by the TRAs. Thinking you're something you're not and expecting other people to collude in the delusion is wrong, so long ... as doesn't involve gender.

Make it make sense.

Things that people do to be "trans" - tell themselves they are in the wrong body, tell other people they are changing their name/pronouns. Change name, clothes, hair, make-up, posture, movement, voice, hormones to fit with a sex stereotype (or their version of it).

The above may or may not be accompanied by gender dysmorphia or AGP (in men).

People who experience gender dysmorphia or AGP may do none of the above and not call themselves "trans".

Essentially it's a lifestyle choice, a paraphilia or an illness.

You forgot to add disabled, pregnant, religious and divorced

Well this took a very wrong turn. Thanks to all who commented about the actual reason for the post.

Apologies to anyone who thinks this is fake or wa written just to get a rise out of people.

I'm genuinely just a concerned parent and wanted some other people's opinions as i don't have anyone to discuss this with.

And the other thing is that this is a luxury belief.

If Sally lived in Afghanistan and identified as a boy , would it gain her an education?

I can hardly imagine many boys and men are queuing up to identify as women in countries where women are oppressed. I don't get it. If the disconnect is so important that they must live their lives as though they are the opposite sex you would think there would be equal numbers of trans identifying people all over the world, yet there are not.

There are large numbers of trans identifying males in countries where it is illegal to be gay, that's hardly surprising really.

We do get white British men dressing up in burqas with stockings and suspenders underneath, playing pretend that they're oppressed, though...

The other girl is controlling and abusive.

Keep talking OP. Parents should never be silenced when talking about how to support their children.

We're in this mess as trans ideology started with #nodebate - no questions, discussions or challenge allowed. The overreach of activists in targeting children has been catastrophic. Now that debate is happening, it's so important that we work out how to support them through this - both the vulnerable victims and their peers.

Hope that your DD and her friend get through all this.

really? are they claiming to be trans?

Some men will fetishise anything, there are no limits or surprises.

Just because something is based on “internal feelings” does not mean it’s an “ideology”.

Again:

Sexuality is about internal feelings. Not an ideology.

Hunger is an internal feeling. Not an ideology.

Pain is an internal feeling. Not an ideology.

Did you miss the OPs child is trying to use the name but not getting much out of the friendship?

But she should at 14 taught to be supressing her needs and wants in the friendship, to be a support system for someone who has her feeling like she is walking on eggshells and display empathy by pretending the girl is actually a boy just because she said so?

Yet even after 11 years you still cant always use your sons new name and are being "transphobic" by using the name you picked ?

Do any of those require a denial of reality?

it’s got nothing to do with “denying reality”. That’s entirely your projection.

Trans people understand what their chromosomes are, it doesn’t change the experience/ fact of being trans. Just as gay people understand what genitals /
reproductive anatomy they have, it doesn’t change the experience/ fact of being gay.

Oxford Dictionary definition of ideology -

Any wide-ranging system of beliefs, ways of thought, and categories that provide the foundation of programmes of political and social action: an ideology is a conceptual scheme with a practical application.

Believing you should be treated as the opposite sex in all circumstances without consideration of the consent and detriment of those of that sex is most definitely an ideology.

Being in pain, being gay, and being hungry are nothing like claiming to have a trans identity. Those things also do not involve appropriation and harming others.

Sexuality is a biological reaction not some abstract esoteric internal feeling
(Hint its all about sexual reproduction in humans.)

Hunger is a biological reaction because humans need to source food and water to live

Pain is guess what ?
(Hint a biological reaction)