Trans protest- sharing for balance

[Tandora]

There’s a thread sharing some really awful images from the protest, so I wanted to share some positive ones for the sake of some perspective/ balance.
A lot of people are really understandably incredibly angry and overwhelmed by the events of the last few days. But most people who support trans rights absolutely don’t condone fighting oppression and injustice with misogyny.

The “unfortunately this is MN” is a load of old rubbish. The fact is, that the majority of women don’t believe it, it’s not just “MN”.

there can be girls who like to dress less feminine ways - these are tomboys

there are blokes that like to dress in frocks - each to there own

but don’t minimise how the majority of women feel by saying “oh this is mumsnet” you just make yourself looks stupid with no substance to your argument

Straight from the "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" playbook.

On the contrary, on MN there is much more balance than on sites like Reddit or Bloosky because there is much less arbitrary censorship and gender realist voices have not been snuffed. Women get to speak without men shouting them down. In the UK, not even public street GC meetings can be held without blokes and their handmaidens threatening attendees.

I don't get why the protest to get into women's spaces instead of demands for safe third space...
Kind of gives really bad optics there. Almost as if safety of everyone isn't the goal...

OP, are all women wearing trousers, allowed to use men's facilities?

This makes no allowance for systemic oppression. I don't see this applied to ANY other characteristic but sex, and yet you're simultaneously saddened by such systemic issues.

You not bothering to do this?

OP, What do you mean when you say trans women are women? Do you mean they literally have XX chromosomes and they were born with a vagina and all the sex characteristics of 50% of the population? Assuming you don't think that trans women were born with these characteristics (because of course they weren't and that's what makes them trans, by definition), don't you think there should be a word for being born with a vagina, womb, a female body, etc? Many women used the word 'woman' to describe this biological reality - you know, the reality that has been a pretty defining aspect of their lives in terms of fertility, periods, hormones, menopause, etc.

By saying a trans woman is a woman, you make the word 'woman' completely meaningless. Because if it's not about biology, what is it about? All we're left with are a bunch of empty gender stereotypes like uses 'she/her' pronouns, has long hair and wears dressss. The term trans women are women erases the lived reality of biological women and strips us of a word that has always been used to talk about ourselves. If that's not misogynistic I'm not sure what is?

I can’t get past the spelling to take the post seriously. 😑

If you created a long considered post on the differences between
• An adult male human who claims to be a man
And
• an adult male human who claims to be a woman
you can link the post
(open/find your post, click on the www address, and copy rhe link, come back here and post the link)
or just copy and paste the whole post.

Dont limit yourself by project your feelings or assumptions on how I may respond this is an oppertunity for you to inform any MN user who reads thread.

Try posting your long considered post and see if i respond or if others respond.

I look forward to reading what you wrote and to see how you would formulate policy.

Did it include this kind of risk analysis :

And to aid you on the risks and policy making decisions please use the UK rate of sex offenders in prison
adult male human SO who claims to be a man
adult male human SO who claims to be a woman
adult female human SO who claims to be a woman
adult female human SO who claims to be a man

Or did you find other sources?

This sums it up for me.

It's the ones forcing their way into women's spaces when women have said 'no'.

The images of aggressive men in dresses having a fit because they can no longer invade women’s spaces sums up the entire movement.

Its finished. It’s over. Accept it.

I’m happy to switch out the word “men” with “people with penises” as that’s broadly what I mean.

I have a friend who is a trans woman. She has breasts (hormones gave her those) and she does not have a penis (I don’t know the details of how it all works but she had her penis surgically removed).

So is it okay for her to use the ladies toilets? She surely can’t use a urinal and can’t attack anyone with her non existent male genitalia…..

Im genuinely interested. I am happy to use her female name and her chosen pronouns. I’m happy to go out to lunch with her etc. but I do understand women who want female only places.

This is really straying into Alice in Wonderland now. How is biology facism? Really. Can someone make that make sense for me?

You're completely fine with trans-identifying men being put in women's prisons, rape crisis centres, hospital wards? You're completely fine with trans-identifying male police and prison officers strip-searching women? You're completely fine with women being told they cannot have a female health-care professional for intimate procedures and care? You're completely fine with schoolgirls being told they MUST accept trans-identifying male teenagers in their toilets and changing rooms?

Really?

Would someone mind linking to the thread with the images of aggressive TRA placards?

This person hasn't changed sex, so no, it's not okay for them to use the ladies. It's not about having a penis, it's about being a man.

Men's toilets also have cubicles.

I really do wonder - how little you'd have to value women to support all that.

I wonder whether lesb-Ian was born a boy called Ian, and is now telling all women that he is absolutely as much a woman as they are? Strange sign otherwise.

I disagree. A lot of posters give a balanced, honest view based on fact, not delusion.

A few examples of the truth - sex is binary, gender is 'made up', it is not possible to change sex, transwomen are men, transmen are women, men have no place in women only spaces, the recent ruling is proof of the above.

A balanced view does not equal anti-trans.

Believing men are women is not balanced. It's a delusion.

Trans-women, are Trans- Women

They are not biological women

Sex is Binary

You can’t change your sex

I don’t understand why TRAs have such issues with scientific facts.

Put on all the dresses you like, wear as much make-up as you want, say you “feel” like a women (whatever that means) as loud as you like. A Trans-women can’t, never has been, and never will be, a biological woman.

Some places, and services, should be restricted to biological sex. I no longer wish to be addressed as “someone with a cervix”, I am a biological woman, and we should respect biology.

TBH .. I don’t want a pervert who shits in nappies, and leaves them outside Nursery’s, to say he’s a “woman” and be given access to the rights that women have fought for over the years.

I have a friend who is a Prison Officer, and on a weekly basis done bloke will pop out of his cell, and say he’s a woman, just to get softer treatment. They don’t want to be moved, and are happy to lean over the pool table in stockings, with thier cock & balls out. They are doing it for sexual kicks

I think you are drawing attention to and highlighting what the problem is though - the majority of people don't have an issue with the trans community in general - but there are some members (as there are in all parts of life) who are a danger to the vulnerable in society and we most people want are rules to protect the most vulnerable in society as a priority. And now let's find a solution to how to keep the trans community feeling safe and accepted too.

I have this belief that biologically its in most woman's genes to want to protect the most vulnerable - so if anything I am disappointed that some transwomen think what they need as individual's is more important than our community agreeing to protect the most vulnerable as a priority.

I would have immense respect for any transwoman who put her hand up and said I get it - there are some low life men leveraging the trans agenda to access vulnerable women and children or just doing it for their own reasons - lets join forces and try and solve this problem together so they don't continue to cause problems for genuine transgender people who just want to live their lives as they choose.