To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

To clarify, I think you were right to help her the way you did, and you went above and beyond. I only wanted to point out - as an outsider who is not emotionally involved in this situation - that it looks to me like her lashing out at YOU had nothing to do with you and everything to do with her overwhelming terror of going through with it. No one can judge you for stepping back, but I think her attitude was a further sign that she was in deep trouble, not just that she was ungrateful.

No im “picking a fight” with people trying to invalidate my feelings and tell me it’s my own fault that I was gaslit.

When have I said I’m glorious? I’m just sharing what I did.

The reason I check is because I still care about her and live in hope that she’s left. I will always feel that way. I didn’t just stop caring

Like I’ve said it was a hard lesson for me - I spent way too much time and energy on it all. My DH recognised it and I thought he was being awful by not wholly supporting my support of Kate. But isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing! I’ve learnt what my own limits are, and how I’d act in the future so it’s not all a sad ending.

Of course friendship is transactional!

If the friend isn't bringing anything but grief why he hell should OP put up with that?

OP. This is not your sinking ship. You don't need to care more about her or her children than she does.

Just because you're a woman doesn't mean you have to be a martyr.

Anyway, my half term is off to the worst possible start - I’ve booked the Minecraft movie (yes I have a tendency to put myself through torturous situations 🤣 maybe I can have a nap?). Setting off soon so a good opportunity you to take a break from this thread as PPs have suggested. Have a good day all and pray for me.

I totally don’t think you’ve been unreasonable. You went above and beyond.

i have to admit though that when I was in an abusive relationship (didn’t live with him) my best friend eventually said that she didn’t want to hear anything about my relationship anymore as it was abusive and she got fed up listening to it without me actually doing anything to address it. She was however happy to talk about anything else. That was actually the wake up call I needed and I finally ended it shortly after that conversation.

Wow! What is it with responses reading how much someone has tried to help their friend turned into then having saviour complex, not being a good friend, should have training in DA (eh?) it's a friendship not a professional carer situation. If your not qualified to deal with your friends issues and you have tried to your own detriment of yourself and family there is a point you have to step back.
Ex friend saying stop reacting to my constant complaints, but knowing they won't stop complaining.....
Their ex friend is in a terrible situation yes, they have also been offered ways out, which is their choice to turn down, to expect a person to keep putting themselves in a draining situation is just stupid and stinks of maybe reading about how to deal rather than actually ever being is such an ongoing situation.
For my similar ex friend, if she ever decides to leave, family and friends, myself included would still help her, cause that's been the only way anyone has approached her throughout all the years, it's her who has turned everyone away. I'm not blaming anyone in abusive relationships they are terrible and twisted. But normal relationships aren't, most people would help a stranger leave a terrible situation, so saying they now have no chance of escape is moving the blame from abusers. Escape generally is available, it's never going to be easy and lots to lose the longer they stay.

To original poster, well done, you tried and your ex friend knows that, she's just unable to leave at this point and is angry and sad and turning blame onto someone who won't respond rather than at partner. We are constantly told to have boundaries in place and well done for doing so.
I blocked on social media too (first and only time, after multiple times on her side as it's hard to see SM posts about how wonderful everything is when you know it's wrong, kids, them suffering. To survive abuse you change as a person, you block out, lie, deny etc and that's not who anyone would chose as charaistics of a friend. If she's telling you to your face she doesn't need help (at this point) that's your cue to step back and out of relationship if you want, otherwise your just her go to complaints person, which is a thankless place to be, which you have found out.

Oh and to those denying her experience of gaslighting, why is important to you to deny her feelings? Why double down when OP has said ex friend is denying saying statements about partner which obviously is intended to deflect blame onto friend for moaning about partner, although there is messages saying otherwise? What are you gaining from telling someone they are wrong how they feel? Maybe you should have some sensitivity training?

Hi op I think your biggest challenge here is your mum that was awful of her to make you feel bad. You gave your best to the friendship for as long as you could noone could have expected you to do more than that. I would take a break from your mum in your shoes. I think you were subconsciously trying to help your mum anyway, but we are not here to set ourselves on fire for others.

This has been a helpful thread for me in my situation, which is a very minor version of the one you are going through. No one thinks at the beginning of a deep friendship that something like this will materialise. You try your best but it takes from you too and you end up feeling frustrated and exhausted. My friend is addicted to the thrill of the online / on phone flirtation and I've become party to that along the way but it has become so distorted and important to my friend. I don't like hearing about it and I want my friend to wake up however I can't do that for her. Maybe without me as a sounding board, as someone else said upthread, my friend will wake up on her own. That is my hope anyway.

But neither of your "examples" are anything like the reality - in your examples it's 'help' volunteered without any request - the friend asked for help, involved the OP fully and engaged with all the help OP gave.

They were friends for years before the marriage and the abuse problems. The OP didn't seek her out and think "Ooh a DA victim, she's the one for me!" 🙄

Pulling back to focus on your own well-being and family, fine.

Completely cutting her off, knowing the situation she was in, honestly I think that's pretty poor from someone who was her closest/early friend.

My abusive ex was not even on the same level as your friends husband...I was still terrified of making the break, it still took me 6 years to leave.

And during that time, my mum, who was as keen for me to leave as you were to get your friend out was supporting me and encouraging me, but there came a point where I had to ask her to stop bad mouthing him, because I needed to be 100% that I was making the decision entirely based on my own thoughts and feelings.

And when she did that...I was out within a few months.

Your mum has been through this, I'm not surprised at her reaction to you giving up on your friend tbh.

Since you ask what you could have done or felt - well, your feelings are your own business and are completely valid, whatever they may be.

In terms of actions, I think you needed to have better boundaries. You did everything for your friend without perceiving that she wasn't as invested as you were in the outcome. She may have asked you for help, but you could have said no. Told her she can call women's aid from your phone, or keep an emergency bag at your house etc, but not put your own life on hold in order to sort hers out.

You did all that out of kindness, I'm sure. But that isn't the whole story. You sacrificed your own wellbeing for your friend and then got angry when she wasn't ready to put the plan into action. That kind of excessive selflessness comes from an inner unmet need and all I'm saying is that you trying to meet this need is part of what created the situation. It wasn't a healthy balance of trying to help your friend while maintaining your own boundaries and caring for yourself.

Your friend obviously upset you but women in those hellish situations are never going to be your support system.

Yes, she may well have done, and that’s where it all becomes very messy. Ultimately you end up with two vulnerable people who rather than supporting one another are dragging one another under. In this scenario, one needs to be the strong one and one the subversive one. When both become strong, the relationship ends, as the OP found out.

A few people seem to have rewritten the narrative in their heads to make it so that the OP was the driving force behind the plan to leave, whereas OPs posts make it clear that it was the friend pushing it by constantly sending messages about how awful her husband is and repeatedly asking for help. I suspect what happened is that the husband found out or friend told him about the plan to leave and then he’s convinced her it was never her idea and that OP is a terrible person who is trying to sabotage their true love that only they understand. The trouble is, there’s really nothing OP can do in that situation other than walk away. It’s one thing trying to help someone who is begging you to help them escape their abuser, quite another to try to help someone who has sided with their abuser against you. It’s obviously very sad for the woman who remains trapped with this man, but there’s just no way OP can continue to help so she had to protect herself. She does not deserve all the nasty comments about saviour complex or trying to force her own way onto the friend, the story she’s told doesn’t indicate that in the slightest.

Very articulate.

Well said. I am shocked by all the accusatory replies saying OP is doing this for her own benefit when she literally said she's been doing it to the detriment of her own family and because her friend specifically ASKED her to help her leave him.

Bloody hell- OP has gone above and beyond for this friend for almost a decade and yet that still isnt enough according to some on this thread- she now has to STFU in the face of being lied to, accused of breaking up her friends marriage and she's supposed to just stay quiet but remain permanently "on call" for this friend should this friend suddenly decide she needs her at some point in the future. I dread to think what such people expect of their friends if they feel people can be used, picked up and put down at will when its convenient and can put up with all kinds of verbal onslaughts just because said friend is going through a rough time.

ALL of us have issues to deal with- I have been through plenty of trauma in my life and managed not to treat my kind and supportive friends like utter shit in the process.

The moral of this story seems to be don’t help friends who are in abusive situations unless you’re willing to take training in DV, never expect any friendship back, take gaslighting on the chin and do whatever they say whenever they say it regardless of how contradictory that is or how difficult and stressful it is for you and most importantly never ever have your own feelings, problems or baggage as that means you aren’t capable of being a good enough friend.

The comments on here sound like the abusive husband talking to his wife - nothing she can do is good enough and as soon as it is, goalposts change and abuse ramps up.

Op, you did the right thing for you and your family. You gave what you could give and stepped back to protect yourself. One sided friendships are exhausting at the best of times, but add in abuse and constant requests for support and it can be all consuming. She could have handled the situation in a very different manner, but chose not to. She chose to lie to herself and to you, to gaslight you, and rewrite history and then deign to maintain the friendship like she was doing you a favour.

She may have felt the need to do that for her mental health because of the abuse, but it wasn’t ever your job to trade your mental health for hers, and it was never your job to give more of yourself to help her than she was willing to give of herself. After 8 years you had gone above and beyond.

You don’t owe her anything. She was not your friend. When it came down to it, she didn’t care about you except in the ways you could support her. Ignore your mum, and enjoy(?!) the film!

The comments on here sound like the abusive husband talking to his wife - nothing she can do is good enough and as soon as it is, goalposts change and abuse ramps up

I had exactly the same thought

Is it fair that I was the “strong one” for 8 years - and had it thrown back in my face?

This is not really anything to do with my OP just a random musing that popped up in my head after I was told IWBVU to feel upset about my treatment and call it gaslighting. According to many on this thread abused women can’t gaslight or manipulate - they may appear to, it it’s just a mask and a symptom of abuse. But does this extend to just friends or does it extend to children too?

Speaking as someone who had to watch her mother endure EA relationships, again and again and never do anything different…I have to say I’m deeply uncomfortable with the narrative shown on this thread of “Even when the behaviour of abused women is terrible it can be wholly excused by the fact they’re abused” and/or “abused women never have any choices”. Because it makes me wonder: what about the children? At what point do we say “Yes it’s unspeakably hard for victims but it is for children to be prioritised”. And yes I know it’s down to the abuser, but women are parents too and still have a duty of care to their children.

My mum has spoken about the treatment that she endured but never even considers the effect it had on me and my siblings. It’s not a factor - and that doesn’t sit well with me. My friend has 2 little girls who don’t deserve a life living with an abuser, which is another factor that drove me to help. When is the expectation that BOTH their parents put them first?

It’s like experiencing that day at lunch all over again TBH - telling me the opposite of what is true, that I’m in the wrong and helped when none was needed, I’m immature apparently and it was all my doing. Not nice.

I don’t think anyone thinks you’ve been treated ‘fairly.’ I think you just got over invested and over embroiled in matters that are very difficult to resolve. And - I do think some of your responses here are a bit sulky and immature, if I’m being honest. I’m not saying that to hurt you, it is how they read to me.

I wouldn’t confuse explain with excused, but yes abuse quite often explains poor behaviour on the part of victims. That’s the sad reality of abuse. The longer it goes on, the harder it is to have empathy for the victim, partly because of compassion fatigue but also because in some cases victims mirror the abusive behaviour towards others as part of a trauma response. Some abuse victims can become very unlikeable people!

But to explain is not to excuse. Children come first and that’s why, as awful as it is, some children are removed from parents for “failure to protect”. It would be fairer to live in a society that does more to condemn abuse and give victims real options to escape it so that children don’t need to be removed, but until we live in that world, children need to come before adults, even adults who are victims themselves.

Endless sympathy without change simply condemns the cycle to be repeated in the next generation.

I think the the ‘failure’ to act on advice given in good faith is part of what underlies the narrative that its six of one and half a dozen of another, that it’s an abusive or toxic relalationship and you can’t help. And that the victim is coercively controlling and gaslighting those seeking to help them escape.

Part of the isolation is not being able to disclose how bad things really are but how powerless you feel to leave. Friends may understand how bad things are but fail to understand how hard it is to leave an abusive relationship. Especially one where the abuser alternates between nice and nasty and you don’t know left from right. So you disclose when things are nasty but then the abuser switches to love bombing and tells you to not listen to or avoid friends who supported you when he was nasty. You dread with your whole being mr nasty coming back. So you sacrifice friends. Next time mr nasty comes back (as he will) you have no friends.

You can be angry that your friend is in this situation but don’t waste that anger feeling sorry for yourself. Help her in a way that she can accept. Her controlling partner wants you gone. Stay present whilst expecting nothing. Don’t make it either you leave or I’m gone. Or worse of all claim you are the real victim just like the abuser is the victim. You are not a victim of gaslighting. There is a mismatch between what your friend said and what she does because of coercive control. It is driven by fear of her partner not a desire to control you.

It’s worth listening to Laura Richards on coercive control. The victims behaviour might look like abuse on the surface but the motivation is fear and survival not control.

A good example of this is Gabby Petito who looked strong and in control and as if she had abused her partner but who was murdered by him because actually she was the victim and he was the abuser no matter how it looked to outsiders.

An abused person can also be an abuser. Personally, I believe that some people are very selfish even while being a bona fide ‘victim’. OP’s so-called friend totally monopolised the friendship by making it entirely about her situation and never giving anything in return. That is wrong regardless of the situation. In fact, OP you would have been more than justified to just walk away ages ago without the horrendous behaviour of your former friend in your last meeting. You needed to protect your own mental well-being before it really caused you major harm. Although it sounded like it already did.

I was in an incredibly abusive relationship for nearly a decade. I probably made it worse by never sharing the abuse and downplayed it to myself because it had not been physical, although the coercive control and abuse caused serious health repercussions. I since realised that I had some responsibility for putting myself in this ‘martyr’ role. I am not at all saying I deserved it, but I do recognise the way I prolonged the dynamics and very much learned from it. However, I was never that selfish or self-absorbed as your former friend and highly valued and treasured my friends. A friendship is sort of like a joint account of care, goodwill and mutual support. No one expects it to be absolutely equal in contributions, Sometimes, one person just needs more and gives less but no one should just constantly withdraw and overdraw and never contribute. In essence, sad situation for your friend – boohoo and all that jazz but she is also a massive, selfish and self-centred cunt. And a spiteful, cruel, vindictive one at that who let out her own feelings of inadequacies on a wonderful person. Please just focus on yourself and better friendships. 8 years is a long time to invest in a bad friendship. You deserve better! Shame about her situation but she really cannot play this kind of shitty game with other people.