To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

the situation isn’t about you.

Aside from the fact she made it a about me a bit by getting me so heavily involved - I’m talking daily texts with screenshots of his abusive messages - that doesn’t mean I can switch my “human” mode off and not be short when someone mistreats me.

It sounds horrible for both of you. You do sound like a lovely friend and I think your mum was unfair to you. However, your friend is in prison. It's not a state prison, with bars, but it might as well be. What keeps her there? If she's shared his behaviour with you, it means she is aware that it's wrong. So, I would argue it's sheer terror of retribution and she quite possibly backed out of her escape because it's an overwhelming move with no real guarantee of success. Many women can't make the finances work after they leave. Think on that. You said yourself that the one look he gave you terrified you so much you left their house. You were on the receiving end for one second but she's got to live with the fucking arsehole. I'm not saying you were wrong to put yourself first - it does sound like it's a huge commitment and it was incredibly generous of you to organise all those things- but it sounds like even you might have underestimated the horror of the situation. Domestic abuse is not a lifestyle choice and it most definitely has nothing to do with 'love'. When someone's trapped, their life is essentially screwed. The last thing they deserve is any kind of judgement, even if it looks like their 'decision' to self-destruct. It isn't.

Sure, I could be wrong. Certainly don't think you were going around feeling smug. More that your actions/role were psychologically meeting some unmet need, probably from your childhood experiences with your mum.

You seem really angry and defensive about your version of events and I do understand that. But I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to point out what might be happening on a deeper level, driven by your own trauma.

I don't think you were wrong to end the friendship, but your ongoing anger and bitterness towards your former friend suggests that you are still struggling with your own demons and seeing everything through the lens of who was right and wrong.

Yes, she treated you unfairly at that lunch, but you also had some responsibility in creating the situation and have something to learn from that. That's all I'm trying to say.

I would say because it is transactional and unintentionally pressurising and demanding.

When someone does that and organises your life for you it’s an awful lot of pressure and is overwhelming and to be honest stifling. I remember years ago I misplaced some important things at work and my colleagues tried to help me find them but having them there made me feel so stressed and anxious! When they stopped I actually found them myself in about ten minutes as I didn’t have people fussing and rifling and trying to be helpful but not being.

Another analogy that works in this instance is when you go into a shop and just want to browse but there’s an overly helpful assistant. It isn’t that they aren’t being nice or helpful but you need time and space to process.

None of that is doubting that it’s affected you and that’s fine. It’s totally fine to say it’s affected you and you are upset by it. When I look back through my life I know I’ve done similar because I do have a personality that likes to be helpful and useful, I suppose! But ultimately you can’t live peoples lives for them.

@TheIvyRestaurant I think you were unreasonable to do an AIBU if you only wanted people to agree with you. @SpidersAreShitheads wasn't aggressive or hostile. She was just not agreeing. She even sympathised with your position.

Don't do an AIBU if you don't want people to say you were BU.

Have to admit I noticed it myself and that kind of black and white sort of thinking does lead to these sort of situations.

OP try to ignore the people being nasty. I have got heavily involved in helping people before only to have them be nasty to me. It’s really upsetting, and for me it’s been nothing as extreme as what you’ve been dealing with. Having her do a complete U-turn and claim that all her asking for your help never happened must have really shaken you. You made the right decision to walk away. May I gently suggest you now walk away from this thread. You will never be able to do anything right in some people’s eyes. No matter how much of yourself you sacrifice trying to do the right thing, it can backfire so easily. You might benefit from a bit of counselling to try to process the whole thing. But whatever you do do not get back in touch with this person. She is not your friend. Her situation sounds horrific, but she’s treated you very badly and you do not have to put up with that.

Honestly, unless I’m missing something, no one here has been nasty.

Myself, @wrongthinker , @SpidersAreShitheads and probably one or two others are suggesting that the situation came about through vulnerability on both sides and that it’s not necessarily a case ‘good OP; bad friend.’

You may disagree with that but it’s been put forward politely and certainly not nastily. If the school of thought is that any sort of ‘hmm, hold on a minute’ post is ‘nasty’ that’s feeding into a bit of a victim mentality which isn’t healthy.

Posted too soon again!

What is more uncomfortable is making it transactional; your friendship and support in return for her being a good girl and doing as she’s told.

FFS have you not read my posts properly? She ASKED for help. She wasn’t “doing as she’s told” (not from me anyway)

There is a difference between awarding people dignity and respect and the tools to control their own life and bestowing charity.

And what is the difference in my situation?

Quite honestly, I don’t have the time. Or the need for it now and I’d handle things differently if this ever arose in the future. I’m a friend not a professional

BTW apologies for all the spelling errors I need to start proof reading my own posts!

Like I’ve already said, I didn’t find it enjoyable. At all. I did it because it felt like the right thing from a friend crying out for help and messaging me on an alley daily basis about her abusive H.

I can't believe that pp are suggesting you get training in domestic abuse! You tried to help a friend ffs, to the detriment of your own family time, and now apparently you should spend more time doing some training so that you can try and help others who will then accuse you of pushing them to leave their abusive partners. Fuck that shit! OP I really think you should leave the thread now, and I think I might well hide it too.

Enjoyable is perhaps the wrong word, but helping others gives us a sense of purpose and fulfilment. It’s also a distraction from our own lives.

With respect, I do understand the nuances of DA. And despite the fact I barely spoke to this man I know him SO well - from the details my friend gave me. I knew what made him tick (being an evil controlling narcissist) and I understand what abuse looks like. But when a friend reaches out for help what do you do - say “Oh well abuse isn’t that easy you probably won’t even leave” or do, as they’re asking, everything you can to get them out of there?

Sure, I could be wrong

You are wrong.

You seem really angry and defensive about your version of events and I do understand that. But I'm not trying to attack you, just trying to point out what might be happening on a deeper level, driven by your own trauma.

Im angry I’m being told I’m wrong to have feelings and that I enjoyed a saviour role. It’s offensive and arrogant.

Yes, she treated you unfairly at that lunch, but you also had some responsibility in creating the situation and have something to learn from that

My “creation” of the situation was borne from her pleas for help. I’ll ask again: what was I supposed to do and how was I supposed to feel?

Like I said earlier an armchair psychologist would probably say my eagerness to help when asked is borne from not being able to help my mum. Or not, who knows, we all have our crosses to bear. But it doesn’t change the fact that it wasn’t wrong to help and do as she so desperately asked.

YANBU to have boundaries, and you shouldn't need reassurance or validation from anyone about that.
There is a difference between a friend needing support to leave, and becoming a target of the abuser. You aren't the police, or a DV shelter. Sometimes women need professional support, and at that point you need to disengage. I'd give the same advice for people in a relationship with an alcoholic, or a cocaine user.

If you find yourself unable to step back or being defensive, consider having counselling to explore your behaviour and reactions.

Imagine if you spent 8 years on a largely one sided friendship, never being listened to, or asked how your dad’s funeral went, or asked how your DC’s hospital appointment went, and having it consumed with one subject - and going to great lengths to help this person to be eventually told that you never wanted that help in the first place. But it’s me who is seeing things as transactional and demanding?! I don’t think so.

I remember years ago I misplaced some important things at work and my colleagues tried to help me find them but having them there made me feel so stressed and anxious!

Did you spend 8 years pleading for help and support, and when given it, throw it back in their face? If not the situation isn’t the same.

Another analogy that works in this instance is when you go into a shop and just want to browse but there’s an overly helpful assistant. It isn’t that they aren’t being nice or helpful but you need time and space to process.

Sorry but you’re not very good at analogies. Unless someone went in every day for 8 years asking for help with the same thing, then one day said “What? No - I never wanted help what are you going on about?” It’s not the same thing

I didn’t want people to only agree with me but I didn’t expect to be told that I wasn’t being gaslit when I very much was. That’s what’s riled me. I’ve already said I appreciate the YABUs

And I disagree about that poster - their posts were goady and full of errors

What I disagree with is you saying I’m X Y Z (such as I enjoyed being a saviour) when I’ve stated from early on this wasn’t the case.

Youve done it again claiming I have a victim mentality - I’ve never claimed any post is “nasty”. It’s just wrong. You don’t know me, I know me, and I know what my feelings and actions are on this.

I think you’re right. I don’t mind people telling me I shouldn’t have walked away. Maybe they’re right. I’m still pondering TBH. But I didn’t expect to be told my feelings weren’t valid and that 8 years of helping was coming from a place of selfishness and enjoyment

So does that make it wrong?

I was sympathetic with you OP, at the beginning. But after your many additional posts, I am afraid I have lost all sympathy. You clearly, for some obscure reason, came here to be told that you were totally and completely right to do what you did, end of story. You are then picking a fight with everyone who doesn't entirely agree with you, and doubling down on how right you have always been. You show a very poor understanding of domestic abuse, and have made it all about you. You are a saint and she is the sinner. I still do not blame you for walking away from a situation which you could not cope with and did not understand. I do blame you for starting a post to make it all about you and how glorious you are, and how nobody else understands you.

I still think it is kind of creepy to be following her on social media, even occasionally, to see if she is still with her husband. If you block and walk away, what kind of validation are you expecting from checking up on her behind her back?

Well, that was a general point rather than aimed specifically at you. Posts that are ‘oh ignore the nasty posters OP’ are rarely helpful, especially when the ‘nasty’ posters aren’t being nasty.

It’s obviously feeling quite raw for you for all sorts of reasons. But becoming over involved, enmeshed in drama, being the saviour, they are all tendencies I have and that’s why I recognise it. Mine tend to be exacerbated when things are tough for me personally too. So there’s no criticism; I’m just explaining what I’ve found myself which is that focusing on others to the detriment of yourself is often a sign of something lacking and to be aware of that.

@TheIvyRestaurant late to this!! just read op's posts and a few of the responses. to be honest, many of the responders are being really unfair to the op. the op did her very best to help her friend over a very long period only at the very last minute for the friend to virtually deny any trouble and accusing the op of having a vendetta again the friend's husband! I feel the friend has been unfair to op. the op tried to organise help after help after help for the friend and in the end the friend threw it all back in op's face. i would have washed my hands of the friend too. you can only help someone who wants to be helped but it sounds like the friend was quite happy being permanently in victim mode!