To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

You can lead a horse to water. But you cannot make it drink. Her marriage. Her problem. That's it. You tried to help. Ultimately, she rejected that help. It's on her now.

Cutting off a friend in need is not what a friend does imo

What about the OP's needs? And her family's?

OP has been prioritising this friend for 9 years, and she admits that it's been at cost to her family (as well as to her own mental health). Why does she matter less than this person who clearly is not going to change, and ended up treating OP badly? A friend doesn't say cruel things to someone who's gone to the end of the earth to try to protect her and save her from abuse for all those years.

This. I wouldn’t have blocked her

You can only save someone when they want to be saved....she was effecting your life ..at that point you walk away. Yanbu

Hi Op, I think you done the right thing. As much as her situation is terrible, there is not much you can do. I see other people saying you could still have remained friends, but you just can’t. I can imagine how stressful it was for you to just listen about how abusive her husband is every time you meet. You won’t be able to stay out of the problem as she was probably always bringing it up so there is no “room” to have a functional friendship.

This. Frankly am shocked/confused at the number of posters berating the OP for not being the perfect support human, doing everything as Kate wanted and it even seems that some think @TheIvyRestaurant should have nodded and agreed with Kate that she was a dreadful person trying to split up a relationship that there was nothing wrong and op had made it all up!
You have done nothing wrong apart from having boundaries, but according to some on here, you're not allowed that!

You're right. The friendship ended due to the other person not meeting the needs required to maintain a friendship.

So as there was no friendship there was no reason for OP to stay in touch.

Yep, it seems like a lot of people have got angry that a friend to someone who is being abused isn’t willing to put up with being abused themselves. And have said they cut people who aren’t willing to take the level of shit op was getting out of their lives. And then also that abused women are isolated from family and friends by their abuser and it’s terrible to stop contact with the abused person. But how many family and friends fade away because they are having their good nature, love and friendship abused through being used as a support human who is not allowed to have their own lives and feelings? I get when you’re in the thick of it you cannot see past your own abusive relationship but from the outside looking in, the abuse just leaks out and damages everyone involved.

Myself and a couple of people have mentioned the drama triangle - if you’re in this dynamic and you’re the victim everyone else is either a rescuer or an aggressor, there are no other roles for them.

I am amazed at the flak @TheIvyRestaurant is getting and the accusations that she wasn't gaslit. Of course she was and of course she is defensive. She helped this friend for EIGHT years. Yes, that's what friends do but to have all this thrown in her face and the major rewriting of history, I would have called time on the friendship too. She sounds as though she was completely used up.
Her friend probably did this under extreme duress and pressure (and I feel very sorry for her) but there is only so much another can take and OP's own life was affected.

I had much the same with my own sister who was in an abusive relationship for years. Obviously I didn't cut her off, she was my flesh and blood and I loved her so much. But eventually I did say to her that I was really sorry, but I didn't want to ever talk about him again. It was life-shortening.

I certainly understand your frustration but DV victims not going through with a breakup at the last minute is so textbook it’s practically cliche, even down to the “you’re turning me against him” reasoning.

sorry if you’ve mentioned it already but do you have any idea what happened to her l? Presumably still with him?

Sounds like you have been an incredible friend and I don’t blame you for taking a step back for your own sake and the sake of your own family. That said, i wouldn’t make this so final. Protect yourself by all means but please leave the door open.

You can only ever do so much, and you distanced yourself to protect your mental health and your family, no one was there, so no one can say you didn't do the right thing. It's exhausting, draining and heartbreaking, but you did the right thing

Errrm with all dear respect its none of your business listen never advice ever but don't make it all about that. As she will feel embarrassed and feel that's all she can talk to you about as that's all you want to do. If stay away

Don’t keep going out of your way for her. But don’t block her either. Tell her you’re still there for her if she needs you, but the impetus and effort has to come from her if she ever wants to leave. You can’t jump through any more hoops.

You did too much for her and it took it out of you. Her freedom, safety and happiness is not your responsibility - it’s hers. It’s a shame that it went that way because there’s no doubt she could do with a friend like you, but you took it too far and tried to rescue her. Do you have a history of codependent relationships? I wonder whether you’ve been in the position of feeling like you need to rescue your mum in the past, if she’s been in a similar situation. Don’t be hard on yourself - you were trying your best and it got too much. Would definitely be good for you to look at how you set boundaries, going forwards.

i had a similar friend very intense for too long I helped her leave an abusive marriage - we haven’t spoken properly for 3 years.she married a d list celebrity and just left me. What I know is that I look back at interactions and she said some really weird stuff so I’ve now come to terms with never seeing her again. And that’s fine. You go your own way look after your family xxx

You sound like you were an incredible friend OP, I don't think you should feel guilty at all. Yes, there may be an element of truth that you were in some way trying to replay the situation with your mum but that doesn't change the fact that you genuinely wanted to help this woman and you went above and beyond to do so.

As you've learned, she is on her own journey and I pray she gets out, but when things are becoming detrimental to your own life, there comes a point where its okay to walk away. Dont feel you need to justify yourself any longer, I bet many people wouldn't have done a fraction of what you tried to do.

This too emotionally drainng for you. She doesn’t want to be helped so cut her loose. No guilt you have done more than enough.

FWIW - I’ve been there. My oldest friend (we went to playgroup together) met a guy at 18. He started turning up to our girls get togethers (always saying he was passing the area.) He alienated all her friends but I stayed around. I loathed him. She married at 21 and had 2 boys by 26.
Her husbands behaviour was always off. He trashed their first flat at the housewarming party because of the way someone ‘looked’ at his girlfriend.
Throughout their marriage she told me absolutely horrific stories of his behaviour. They upset me deeply and I struggled to understand why she put up with it.
Shortly after their 1st baby I moved away for work. 400 miles away. We stayed in touch but I didn’t visit as frequently.
Long story short, it took her 26 years of marital abuse to finally leave him and even then only due to violence displayed between her husband and eldest son.
She attended a ‘freedom’ programme where she was warned her husband would likely kill her than allow her to divorce him.
She is now divorced, he has a court order to stay away from her.
When my frustration was peaking, I did reduce contact to birthday and Christmas cards with the odd text message. Phone calls stopped as they actually kept me awake at night as I processed the hell she was living through.
However, I am still in contact, we are still friends and I really wish her the best. She lost 32 years to this man.
He had a hold on her that I couldn’t fathom.
I think you have to do what’s best for you. Don’t feel guilty. Friendships evolve, some fall by the wayside, others thrive. Some are lifelong, others more transient.

My one piece of advice would be ‘don’t cut off all lines of contact’. I always made sure my friend had my address, phone numbers and email addresses just in case she needed me. From 400 miles away, I felt safe that her husband wouldn’t turn up at my door looking for her.

Some messages from her to me were used with her lawyer and domestic abuse counselling people to help her talk about what had gone on over 30 years.

So many posters on this thread have been triggered and are directing their ire at the wrong person, the OP. She’s entitled to protect herself, not give what little she had left for someone else. Can’t pour from an empty cup and all that. The person deserving of PPs’ vitriol is the abusive man.

I’m never not shocked by how women will still find a way to demonise women over men.

You have gone above and beyond what can be expected of a friend. Do not beat yourself up and do not let your mother guilt and project her bad decisions and poor choices onto you. You have tried for 8 years to help your friend but it is her choice and only she can save herself and her children. She has chosen to stay in an abusive relationship, there is nothing you can do about it. Your primary responsibility is to yourself, be well for your own and your family's sake.

I'm coming to this with the perspective of having been someone post-DV who got cut off by a friend (we'll call her B), and also as someone who is a friend to someone in a DV situation who won't leave (call her Y).

It's easy to point the finger, but assigning blame isn't productive. There's a lot of context to unravel.

You did a lot to help her. That's admirable, but at some point it crossed into the need to save your friend to the detriment of yourself and your friendship.

Regardless of what your friend allowed, helping was always your decision. It sounds like you took on too much responsibility and it took a toll. You neglected yourself and got burned out emotionally. If you want to be a good friend, you have a responsibility TO support your friend, but not FOR her, and not to the detriment of yourself. It's not your responsibility to save her. This is very hard to extract yourself from if you care about someone. But ultimately, you are blaming her by projecting your resentment onto her because she's not doing what you want her to do, aka leaving him with your help, because it's the "right thing" for her to do.

Thing is, it's her decision. I understand how hard it is to watch as I am watching Y do the same. But no matter how much your friend tells you, you won't know the full extent, fully understand or know what's best. She does. Leaving is dangerous. She's the best person to assess the risk. She lives it, she's the expert. I understand it's hard to watch but it's not your decision or experience, it's hers.

People tend to infantilise women in DV situations as stupid and unaware of what is best for them. But they do know, and your friend seems very aware.

I did what you did with Y. I went above and beyond. It was draining me. I started to dread speaking to her. I saw myself doing what B did with me. B made me a personal project, and I appreciated her help but was also overwhelmed by it. I didn't know how to say no or disagree because I felt obliged to agree. B ended up abandoning me at a point I was so depressed I was su*dal because she felt her efforts were wasted as I was getting worse despite her help. I'm still not over the pain of that. I didn't want do to that to Y. I stepped back, saw what was happening, put in more boundaries to protect myself emotionally and once I let go this need to save Y, it got easier to support her. She still hasn't left, and that's ok.

I understand you were hurt by what she said. I would have been too. She wasn't gaslighting as that's not the definition based on your description, however I suspect her words are really her DH's as he'll be gaslighting and manipulating her, orchestrating the demise of your friendship to isolate her. She possibly did feel overwhelmed by your help as it creates an obligation for her to act when she isn't ready. She might have been pushing you away, and self-isolating as a result of the abuse (I've done this too, and looking back I confronted and cut off people I didn't want to because of ex in my ear). That put you in the firing line, and your upset at that is valid. I'm sorry you went through this, and how much it's impacted you.

But sadly, by removing yourself entirely you have contributed to the isolation that DV victims experience. I know that sounds harsh. It isn't just an abuser telling someone they can't speak to their friends. It's the self-isolation above. It's a community dropping away because they blame the victim for not leaving, not doing what they perceive as the right thing. People get frustrated and bail.

I think your mum has point. I saw you've considered reaching out to your friend. She might be angry and reject you initially. I think that's fair. But I think it's a great idea. She needs a friend, not a support worker. Try to be curious instead of looking for fault. Try to be accountable and open to discussion. Talk about it with your mum - you might know about DV but you don't really know what it's like unless you've lived it.

This is a brilliant post. So much insight and wisdom. I'm glad that you were able to get away @confusedcrane.

@confusedcrane - such a great post, I agree. The only thing I would say is- the OP has said that this friend constantly sends her the abusive messages and photos her partner sends to her and is constantly talking about how awful he is.

That does put the OP in a difficult situation in terms of feeling all over the place and knowing what on earth to do. Eg- she tries to help her leave and gets told "you have a vendetta against my husband" but the week before she is sending her abusive text messages from him and saying how horrible he is. What is OP supposed to do then?- nothing she can say or do is right.

If the friend cannot stop sending these text messages I completely understand why the OP may have to draw a boundary and say, I cannot do this any more. It's putting OP in a situation where she is helpless to do anything but watch.

I also think there is a separate issue here whereby the friend seems to ignore the traumatic events the OP is going through and never offers her any support- friendship has to be reciprocal otherwise essentially it IS the support worker dynamic that you refer to as not being healthy (and I agree). If it's always one friend supporting the other and never the other way around then whether you like it or not, you DO have a support worker dynamic in play, and not a friendship.