To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

I’m not sure if you’ve misread my post but a lot of the advice is too late, I cut her off 3 years ago.

And I was gaslit. You don’t get to decide that. Or do you think abused women are never capable of bad and unkind behaviour?

But op wasn’t abusing her friend so why should she take abusive behaviour from her friend because her friend is being abused? What if the abusive husband acts out of fear of something when he is abusive - is that ok then? Maybe he had a bad childhood and he can’t help it or ptsd or whatever. Being abused doesn’t give you a free pass to be horrible to everyone in your life who isn’t abusing you.

Interestingly his PTSD comes from a claim he was physically abused as a child.
But I bet no one is saying his toxic behaviour to a loved one is OK because of that.

I'm not sure if you saw my previous message, I suggested reading up on the drama triangle and codependent relationships as it may help you make sense of how you ended up in the situation you did.

I think you were unreasonable to block her, as you were her only safe person. You’ve played straight into his hands. I’m sorry but you should have left the door wide open for any time she might decide to leave him and need you. The most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves her abusive partner. She also stood to lose her child. It’s not as simple as just leaving.

You aren't responsible for her safety.

I do think DV perpetrators manipulate people and he may have forced her hand, who knows. But it was now taking a toll on you, keeping you from your family and marriage as you worried about her.

It's OK if you hit your limit, sounds like everyone else hit theirs sooner.

You can't help someone who isn't ready to be helped.

Don't be so hard on yourself, this isn't your fault, it isn't your responsibility.

Been here myself. In all honesty you really can't help anyone that won't listen. It has to be her decision to leave. Wish I had a friend like you that was so supportive.

This. You tried your best for her. I personally think she’s told the cretin you were helping her move on, and he’s turned it all around, probably saying she’s triggering him again, and who know what else. You did your best for long enough. If she really wants your help in the future, she’ll reach out.

I can see your point of view. However, from someone that eventually escaped a narcissist, she probably really needed you. Personally I would have stepped back but still remained friends. He finally won and totally isolated her. Blocking her seems so extreme.
if you worry about it still why don’t you reach out to her. See how is she?

It is easier for us to think that women stay for the nice house and lifestyle than to try to imagine what it is actually like to walk out on the home that is all your children have known all their lives and to leave with absolutely nothing.

I remember being told by a Samaritan (!) when I rang in distress that he didn't believe that I wanted to leave my exh because I would already have done so. I had owned the house before I even met my exh. This man was suggesting that I needed to walk out of my own house? Also, I knew that women get killed when they leave and so had to bide my time and work out a way of leaving safely.

No-one knows what it does to your mind when you are in such a terrifying situation, and no-one who hasn't been through it would be able to understand why you might put on a front of being in a loving relationship, even claiming to be in love with the perpetrator. If you have children you are in an even more terrifying situation because you want to do your best to protect them. Believe it or not protecting your children can sometimes mean staying in the situation and doing what the abuser tells you to do because if you try to escape he will harm you and your children. The law isn't able to protect people in this situation because there is no evidence that they need to be protected.

The only way I can explain it is that it can feel like having a sniper with a gun trained on you and your children and you know that if you step out of line the sniper is going to give the order and destroy you. To everyone else it looks as though you are free to go as you please.

And victims very often do come across as arseholes. Living with that kind of stress really messes with you and it is impossible to be "normal". The perpetrator can often come across as much nicer and more stable than the victim for that very reason.

Apologies for the long post.

The problem you had was you invested yourself. When I used to visit friends and their relationship was on the rocks my partner would always tell me don't give advice or bad mouth their partner. When they make up I would be mud and she would tell him everything I said.

The reason why your friendship lasted so long is because you only listened to her until the day you involved yourself. It doesn't matter if she asked you for help you gave her strength and made her relationship stronger and closer because of how involved you were. She didn't want to leave him she wanted him to change.

OP you were a good friend to her but ultimate she's an adult and she chose to stay. I know it's not black and white but it sounds like you put a lot not time and energy into setting her up alone and she still didn't leave. She may do eventually but you don't to watch the shit show in the meantime.

While I don’t agree it should have been all or nothing I know how draining it can be to try help someone who won’t help themselves. HOWEVER we are talking about emotional/domestic abuse here, and having had an ex narcassistic and controlling husband myself it’s very very hard to leave especially when children are involved. I had some friends that did what you did and some that stood by me to the end, eventually I left and I am so thankful for the friends that never gave up on me. The ones that cut me off will never be in my life again, they made their decision. I feel sorry for her.

No, you did nothing wrong. You spent years helping her to the detriment of your own young family and your mental health. I had several friends who were in desperately unhappy marriages and after my own ended I did all I could to help them leave theirs. It never happened. One is still with him and she's a shadow of her former self. The other was widowed and speaks about him as though they were the perfect loving couple! I just stopped being there for them both, slowly withdrew as I couldn't take their self deception any longer. I bump into them now and then, but we're no longer friends. You can't fix other people's problems - they have to want to fix it themselves. I no longer allow myself to be used as an emotional dump bin.

You sound like a really good person. Your friend was very lucky to have you, but sometimes all our energy can be wasted on folk who are happy to vent all their problems to us but are not willing to take anything we say on board. I've been in a similar situation to this and eventually had to wash my hands of the situation and the friendship. Essentially you were being used even though your friend might not have realised she was using you. You did the right thing in severing ties and saying enough is enough. Nothing is worth risking your own relationships and your own mental well being. Also, your mother should have been a bit more supportive of you x

Your suggestion is for OP to cut her mum off, another woman who went through abuse.
It's possible to talk things through after calming down instead of just cutting people off.

I'd check in OP in case she does eventually leave.

I've been in the situation of your friend but I got out before he could do any more damage than he already had and before DD was old enough to realise.

He sounds a right nut job, no matter what he says is wrong with him. Many women (and men) live their lives like your friend but until she decides to leave there's really very little you can do. You've been through it all, been the supportive friend to the extreme and what are you left with - something you have no control of and a load of trauma for yourself. It will take some getting over for you.

Telling your mum will have triggered her memories and that's why she reacted like she did. Where you sought a shoulder to offload your own emotions, she made you the villain.

Protect yourself going forward, it's not as if you didn't try and you'll hopefully realise that getting involved in other people's relationships is pointless when there's trouble. Only the victim can do anything about their situation, it takes a decision and a lot of courage.

‘She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving.’

I would have been absolutely fuming after this and reacted a lot worse than you did after all your time effort and emotional stress. I think if I ever even got one of those messages from my husband I’d smash his face in for him, she wants to put up with living like that, that’s up to her.
Your mums being completely irrational because of what she’s been through, she’s being awful to you honestly.

You know that expression taking a Horse to water but can’t make it drink….you have done all you can the rest was up to her…make your peace. And never get involved in anyone’s marriage you just never know what goes on behind closed doors

I understand why you felt frustrated with her of course. You invested a lot of your own time and energy into something which was pointless in the end. However, I can’t understand why you would completely cut off someone that you cared about.

She’s now been left with no support at all and it feels like she’s been punished for not being strong enough to leave at that time. It sounds like she was very very close to leaving but maybe something happened? Could he have found out?

You could have stayed in touch even if you needed a break and didn’t want to see her as often. I’m sorry but I do think you’ve let her down.

Kate was really, really awful to her over that lunch, after all OP had done to help her, including arranging that low-cost flat. Everyone has their limits. OP needed to end the friendship after that, and I think that was a good move on her part. Just because Kate is in an abusive relationship doesn't give her the right to be absolutely awful to OP, who is a human being with her own feelings, not a charity. OP did everything she could and Kate kicked her in the teeth, hard. I don't think OP has any further obligation to her and nor do I think she's let Kate down. Sounds like the other way round, seeing as how OP has had her own problems over the past few years and Kate hasn't been bothered about those. You can't treat someone the way Kate did and expect that person to remain your friend.

@TheIvyRestaurant I'm glad you didn't let her get away with being so awful to you. Sometimes we need to show people that they can't treat us that way, for our own self-respect and self-esteem.

You say that he finally won and totally isolated her, but it was Kate's decision to be so horrible at that lunch. She didn't have to be like that. She could have just said that she didn't have the strength to leave him at that time.

I think it was the healthiest decision for OP to end the friendship. And blocking can also be a healthy move to ensure that you don't get sucked back in.

I wonder what caused Kate's sudden change of heart, where did she find the strength in her messed-up world to turn it all round on you and make it your fault.

Maybe he gave her an ultimatum - it's her or me - not both. Had she been quiet for a length of time and then going out for lunch was her idea, or maybe it was yours - was this something you would normally do?

People make up after fall-outs and things calm down, it's a cycle - one minute everything's rosy and the next it's back to square one. I used to have this with a relative, constant earache about her husband & it sounded like she needed 'rescuing' but then it was all forgiven and forgotten. Repeat, repeat. She was waiting for him to change for 20 years but he didn't. I was the one who suffered never mind her. I vowed I'd never end up in that situation but I did, twice - the first one I put up with for 8 years then left, the second one I married within a year - I'd known both of them for a few years prior but my god I thought I'd learned my lesson after the first time. I think there's a strong element of wanting things to be right but they're clearly not vs shit I can't face another break-up, so you stay.

The third one was an even bigger risk - hardly knew him but he said all the right things and seemed sincere. Turned out he was in the same situation as me so we took a chance and both left our abusive marriages, our homes and dumped the lot. We're still together after 14 years, both still married to our horrid controlling exes but we're happy and that's worth everything.

It's hard to dump people but everybody has a breaking point. Had I been you I think I'd have tipped the table up & left. Don't be too hard on yourself, 3 years later she's probably still living the same life and you need to concentrate on yours x

No, I think you had to protect your own boundaries, though the text and blocking was a bit harsh and possibly too influenced by your DH, but also in the past now.

DM is triggered because of her own issues try not to take it to heart.