To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

If my friends gave up on me I'd still be in an abusive relationship. It often takes a few attempts to leave an abusive relationship.
You did what you had to for your own mental health but having been where she is I wouldn't have written her off all together

Thank you for the replies.

As to why I ended the friendship completely: it was that last lunch, where she completely gaslighted me. She made out I was the main driver of her nearly leaving her husband, that she always ascertained being alone, skint and in a small house would be worse than staying, and that I got carried away and obsessed with her leaving while she was sitting bewildered at the thought of leaving, apparently too scared to stop me. She did assert that her DH is a dickhead but not bad enough to leave and it was me, not her, hell bent on breaking the marriage up and “the time had come” to “finally” let me know i’d gone too far.

It was utterly humiliating. I was made to feel like I fancied her or something and she was rejecting me.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I’d rather she’d have punched me in the face. It would have hurt less than feeling like some creep of a friend trying to control her. I remember just gawping and saying very little later than “Oh that’s not what I’ve taken from all this”.

After that lunch I couldn’t see myself meeting up with her knowing she’d gaslit me so much. I even went through messages afterwards where she said she was unhappy and hated her DH and wanted out, just to make sure I wasn’t losing my mind.

I chatted through with DH (who was raging on my behalf) and we felt like I had 3 options: 1. apologise and pretend she’s right and I’m in the wrong and carry on. 2. Show her the ‘receipts’ of how she was lying, or 3. Cut her off and move on with my life.

I chose option 3 because it felt right at the time and felt right for a long time. I am 95% sure her DH was behind the gaslighting - but still, I’ve never ever in my life felt like I did after that lunch

I don’t think your mum was intentionally being nasty but I think she spoke from emotion rather than experience and it sounds like there was a lot of projection. Is she really able to take a balanced view? I wouldn’t pay too much heed to what she said, I doubt she’d have worked so tirelessly to support someone else in escaping an abusive marriage as you did. ‘You should’ ignores all the support you did give, and your mum seems to ignore the fact you had that handed back to you with a ‘thanks but no thanks.’

The danger of getting so deeply involved, to the point that you were basically doing it FOR Kate, was that she’d do exactly what she did - ‘you’re pressuring me.’ She took cold feet and decided to lay the responsibility for her change of heart on you for trying to help. It’s sad and it’s understandable and it’s very human but it’s not something most people could easily stand by and watch. She needed/needs to identify and work to enact her own wishes.

In my view you’ve not done anything wrong. She had a problem you tried to help solve. Kate needed help and asked for it and got it. She decided she didn’t like the help and you withdrew it. You’re entitled to make your decisions just as she makes hers. I think there is a moral obligation to try to help others where we can but I think you fulfilled that amply and generously. She couldn’t expect you to spend more years listening to the same stories and say ‘ah well, fancy a margarita?’ She over-involved you then expected you to switch off when she decided it was enough from you. You withdrawing was an inevitable consequence to the dynamic she created. I feel sorrow for her but I don’t feel that you have anything to feel guilty about.

She was never ever going to leave. I can 100% guarantee that. She has got so used to being the victim, she doesn’t know how to live any other way. If she had left she would have gone back. You did what was best for you and your own family. Some of us just can’t leave.

It's a tough one. She obviously wasn't ready to leave at that time, but she might be at some point. And maybe in your eagerness to help, you pushed her a bit faster than she was able to go.

Would it have been better to stay friends regardless? From her perspective, maybe. It sounds like she is very isolated otherwise. But perhaps you needed to break it off at that point for your own wellbeing? I don't think that makes you a bad person. We all have limits on our capacity to help others, and maybe you were at the edge of yours at that time in your life?

She was happy for me to do all the research and planning - I offered and she accepted on the basis that she couldn’t risk getting caught. She would delete our messages but I kept them all. I still have them actually just as proof that I wasn’t imagining how bad he was.

You've gone way above and beyond, hundreds of times. You did the right thing.

She is an adult, you provided her with a good exit (property) and she responded by telling you that you have a vendetta against this shit head.

You did the right thing.

What you should have replied to your mum, is: I'll give you Kate's number and you can put your suggestions into practice.

My mum’s abusive marriage was before we were born, but she’s always been open and I’ve always been knowledgeable about DV and will always be an ally to victims.

As for my childhood - put it this way, o don’t and won’t replicate any of my mum’s parenting methods, and there’s a reason we aren’t close. She picked bad men. A lot of bad men. Who may not have hit her but treated her like shit.

I clicked on “YABU” because you are for torturing yourself about this. You went above and beyond and quite honestly, she didn't deserve you. I accept and understand that getting out of that sort of relationship is extremely difficult but it would have been so hard for you to have to stand by and watch it when she essentially threw it all back in your face. Hopefully she will find the courage one day. You haven’t done anything wrong at all so please be kind to yourself!

From personal experience because it's just too bloody hard and draining to go along with a false narrative. I can still be friends even though we have different interests, support different political parties or sports teams but I cannot watch someone being destroyed by a situation they are desperately convincing themselves is fine and normal When its anything but and also join in with the delusion.

Some might think that makes me a bad friend but I have tried so hard and now have to accept I can't help if they don't want help, as a PP wisely said.

Your mum is very unfair and unkind, and as a pp said, projecting from her own experience, she's blaming her friends and family members for not trying hard enough to make her leave, when she was the only one who could actually leave her abusive husband. It wasn't her friends fault and it's absolutely not your fault that your friend stayed in her awful relationship. Your mum is damaged, but it's no excuese to take it out on you.

You can't help someone to leave a partner who refuses to be helped, and it will break your heart if you keep trying. You can offer support and advice, but if someone isn't going to take control of their own lives, you can't make them. Whether it's fear, inertia or 'love', there's only so much you can do, and you did absolutely all you could. I've been in a similar situation with a friend, she left her abusive alcoholic ex, then took him back, I couldn't stay close to her.

If talking to your mum has got you worried about your friend again, you could reach out and say that you hope things are going well with her, if she says she wants to leave but doesn't know how, you can tell her to contact Women's Aid, but don't try to save her, she needs to want to leave, and she needs to make a plan, so she's committed to it.

Your mum is horrible to try to guilt trip you, sounds like she didn't protect you as a child, she's not doing it now either. Can you keep contact low, for a while at least, for your own wellbeing?

It seems like you were a great friend and really tried to help her consistently over a number of years. However, it was to the detriment of your DH and DCs sometimes - from what you report in your OP. You can't keep on high alert and trying to help her to leave, she has to want that herself. I think YANBU to cut the contact. You ware not the only source of help she could get (women's aid/refuge and police are all sources). I don't think you should feel guilty any more, just move on and concentrate on your own family.

Im going to say something pretty awful - but I want to be totally candid. the reason taking option 3 continued to feel right after I was over the initial shock is because the friendships I made shortly after were more fun, lighter, less angst and worry and I really enjoyed that aspect of my life. For 8 years my main friendship was steeped in really horrible details and pain and heartache. Kate and I did laugh still but it was an ever reducing irregular occurrence hidden amongst all the other discussions about her nasty DH. To be able to meet up with friends and just have a really good giggle and share our much more pleasant lives was like a breath of fresh air I never knew I needed.

I know how awful that sounds. Women who are DV victims deserve good friendships but my emotional resources were really depleted.

THIS. @TheIvyRestaurant please print this post onto your mind so that next time it tells you you've made the wrong move (which if you have an overanxious one then it inevitably will) you can conjure it up.

YABU.

You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

I agree with this, but additionally, you can't coerce someone into doing what you want them to do and then punish them when they dont do it!

It sounds like you talked her into saying she'd leave her husband. Your motives for wanting that are completely understandable, but that could have come across as another person pushing her into things she's not sure about or really wants. She's obviously more scared of the repercussions with her husband than you.

I think it would have been fine to have told her that you can't keep up that level of support, that it comes at a personal cost to you and that you'd given her an out and she's rejected it and you'd therefore taking a step back, but that ultimately you'd be there for her if she ever sees sense or ever really needed you. Instead, you've cut her off completely from the only person she had.

I don't think you understand how you might have come across to someone extremely vulnerable. Despite trying to do a good thing, I think you might have come across as another dominant force and then punished her fir not doing what you want.

Agree

I don't think that sounds awful. You've also got to live your life, which should include fun and lightheartedness.

I suspect a lot of what she said to you had come from him directly. It doesn't make it any less hurtful to you. In a way, it's more hurtful because she hasn't shielded you from his abuse. There was some element of him bullying you through her.

I can see why you needed to get away from the situation.

I thought my Mum was overly critical but yours sounds worse.

I don't think YABU at all.

You went out of your way to help her to no avail. Totally fair enough to bail.

Sounds to me like your mother’s choice in shit partners was her choice and she put her choice before her children. She’s now trying to deflect from it being her responsibility to put her children first and blame friends for her selfishness. That’s why she’s saying you are to blame.Deflecting from herself.
Ignore your selfish mother, you have done nothing wrong.

I'm currently in a similar situation with a friend
I'm also thinking of doing what you did
It's being stuck in a loop
She tells me how bad things are
I spend time and energy supporting her , trying to help , finding information for her .
Then suddenly the situation has changed,I've wasted my time and energy and the situation is now completely different.
I think she likes the drama and excitement centered around her ,we never discuss me or anything to do with me ,it's her all the time
It's exhausting and I think I'm being manipulated.
Op 100% you did the right thing
Don't doubt yourself
You went above and beyond as a friend x

You couldn't continue with her though, not without real detriment to your own health. As it is you've probably been living on high alert, with all the physical and emotional impact that has on a person. Living with chronic stress that's outwith your control is so bad for your health.

Also your mum is being really unfair on you. I wouldn't contact your ex-friend. She'll have found someone else to fill your role, someone she could replicate the victim/rescuer relationship with and all the support you'd given her.

It may help to read up on the drama triangle and codependent friendships, and see that there was no other way out for you.

Don’t feel guilty. You are not responsible for her. I dislike your Mums reaction too: reminds of the “ you need to be dutiful” “you are a woman and should be x,y,z” vibes I get off my Mum sometimes. You went above and beyond for your friend. I think you did the right thing. Put it out if your mind and just say, “I’ve heard she’s fine” if your Mum brings it up again, and then change the subject.

She didn't gaslight you! She has been living with an abuser for years, telling her she is failing at everything, controlling her, belittling her... do you image what that is like? She was scared, terrified, probably worried whether her would come for her, hurt her, take away her kids!
Abuse takes away your essence, your "self", your sense of reality!
It seems when he acknowledged she should leave, it was "all hands on deck" on your side, and full-on LEAVE plans, without thinking ah whatvpace she actually eas able to carry this on!
You should not have blocked her.
If you really feel bad about it, read Why Does He Do That by Dr Lundy (free PDF available), there are chapters on how to help friends going through abusive relationships.

Your mum is out of order and it sounds to me as if she's using this scenario to make herself feel better about not leaving as soon as she should have done (if she did?). She is allying herself with your friend because she identifies with the situation but she should be firmly and squarely in your corner.

I would refuse to speak about your friend again in your mother's presence and I'd leave if she did. Or, give her a piece of my mind about not forcing your children to stick around like a doormat in a doomed and abusive relationship.

You did the right thing. Keep those boundaries. Your friendship is over, you made the right decision. If and when your friend ever gets to that point she will be in a position to make new friends but I doubt she'd find one that gave as much of herself as you did.

Be at peace with your decision, it was right.