To think that women are still doing the brunt of childcare even on holiday?

[Binman]

I've just returned from a half term holiday with grandchildren and I am genuinely sad at how much of the childcare still falls to the women. I can honestly say that my observations around the pool and the restaurants it is the mother who is changing, feeding, applying sun cream etc. The father may get in the pool for a while but is mainly chilling while the mother does the main care.

I know there are hands on dads out there but the more I noticed the more I observed and so many of the fathers only did the fun bits in the pool or the quiet time, which was mostly the child on a phone or iPad.

It was the mothers sitting with the child on the plane or carrying three hand luggage's while the father carried the child. While waiting for our flight a woman I was talking to said she was dreading the flight as she was exhausted, when I asked her why she didn't sit in the 4th seat and leave the 2 children to her DH on one row, she said he won't do that.

I suppose my AIBU is that should the fathers not be stepping up, where both parents need a relax and respite from their usual daily grind?

Many years ago now, Jeremy Clarkson wrote a column about exactly that.

It’s not new.

Totally agree.

The classic I see on planes is mum with two children in one row, then dad across the aisle.

Behaviour on holiday is just a continuation of expectations at home - and that is, in most families, that mothers are the primary caregivers.

My view is that this starts with maternity leave, which sets expectations around mums doing more and being the expert on everything - and then just continues.

Just the fact that we have the term ‘hands on dad’ says it all. How often do you hear about hands on mums?

Yes and typically the men don't see they are doing less and are outraged at even a hint they are not pulling their weight.

I think it stems from childhood/role models, men generally having lower standards ( tidy house, home cooked meals, screen time etc) and the way workplaces often expect men to not have home issues impacting.

Oh and societal expectations of men vs women

@TheSandgroper I haven't read that article but yes as a grandmother I know its not new, however this was the first family orientated holiday I have been on for a while and I was saddened to see that it still remains the norm.

@MidnightPatrol excellent point about maternity leave. I recall a male colleague taking shared parental leave with his wife and it being a total exception to the norm and he also had to guide his manager through the procedure.

@NoraLuka yes, that's right and so many other praises for the father being a good dad or telling the mother she is lucky, even I used the term, step up.

My DM told me last week how lucky I was that DH was coming to parents evening, and poor him for having to rush home from work. She ignored the fact I was also “rushing” home from my office in London that day. I made it clear that OF COURSE DH would be there/ they are 50% his dc too and we share parenting equally.

A dad with a toddler (doing something mundane like going to the park/a toddler group etc) is often treated as a superhero, or doing something special when women do the same day in and day out and are probably told they're doing it wrong, or lazy for not being at work

The problem is, if you're the default parent, you're the default parent. That doesn't change just because you're on holiday. Unfortunately to get the other parent to do stuff you normally do requires you to ask them and you might feel like it's easier just to do it and not spend the entire holiday 'delegating'. I'm not saying it's right but to break the habit of a lifetime for one week feels pretty unrealistic.

I totally agree - me and my DP did shared parental leave and although we both went back to work after DC1, we've now had another and he's given up work for a while and I am still working. That would have never have happened if he hadn't have taken time off when they were born.

This is why I laugh when Father’s Rights groups complain about the imbalance in custody arrangements with women retaining primary care.

Well yes that typically reflects the situation pre the separation!

But I think a lot of women prefer that. I can count the number of families I know where the man is the primary carer on half a hand. But in the remainder the couple seems fine with that. And also with the man having a lot of leisure time while the woman has almost none.

I think it starts even before maternity leave - baby showers are still overwhelmingly female because children are seen as women’s domain.

Also probably for the best I never had children as I would be filled with resentment if I noticed my partner was comfortable seeing me doing all the work while he chilled

But I think a lot of women prefer that. I can count the number of families I know where the man is the primary carer on half a hand.

My DP and I did shared parental leave and he spoke to a few colleagues about it when they mentioned that their DP was pregnant. Only out of a small handful but all bar one said that their DP wouldn't want to give up any of their maternity leave so that they could have some time off. You can make the argument that Paternity leave should be 'as well as' not 'instead of' but regardless, if men are going to be more equal parents then it has to start at birth, imo.

It was never the case when ours were small. My husband would do all of the entertaining and insist that I got to chill out.

But I have friends with pretty useless husbands who don’t even know how to pack for a holiday let alone care for their kids. More fool them, I say.

I’m not sure if it’s because we did shared parental leave, I have noticed a common pattern with people who have, but we are very even. I’m probably the one more likely to be on my second cocktail whilst he’s scrambling with inflatables, sun cream, etc!

It's a tricky one. My DH is very 'hands on' (I hate that phrase!) but ultimately my children do prefer my comfort because of how it all started. I carried them, breastfed them, had maternity leave with them. They are 3 and 2 now and I have a Friday off with them because my job allows me to condense FT hours into 4 days. My DH also works Saturdays so I'm with them more. At home there's no difference, but out and about when they're in a new situation that might be a bit overwhelming or a change from the norm, they naturally come to me comfort. Sometimes we don't 'give in' to the demand (eg no you're going shopping with dad because mummy wants to try things on which I can't do with you two hanging off my legs) but other times it's just easier to go with it. I can imagine this scenario with my kids like yes, he could sit with them on the plane, but they are less likely to cry/whinge/tantrum with me so I would probably do it to make everyone's lives easier (especially other passengers). I think a lot of families are in this situation and it's not necessarily how it appears.

Can't say my observations are the same as yours

As default parent, holidays aren't really holidays, just same shit, different location with less space and tools. Which is why DH wants to go away pretty well every opportunity he has and I'd like to spend some time at home doing a mic of local tourist stuff and chilling out or letting the kids chill out while we get some shit done together. He also likes to get away as soon as he's finished work if we've got no fixed transport booked - we had a big row at Christmas about him wanting an extra day at parents (9 rather than 8) while I wanted a day to catch up at home after he'd finished working before heading off.

Pattern always starts from the beginning, back when we were doing house renovations with a newborn it was always me that had to stop to do anything child related (including nappies) pretty well regardless of what I was doing - then I'd inevitably end up doing a feed and get them down for a nap while DH/ FIL got stuck into their next task which they couldn't possibly abandon while I had to restart my task which usually took longer to restart than it would have taken to finish at the time.

We still get issues where DH identifies as "quick" DIY task from the neverending list while I'm doing boring day to day stuff. This "quick" task takes 4 times his estimate and I have to stop in the middle of my task to sort kids and dinner when I really wanted to get something actually finished rather than 80% then left to get part undone.

And don't get me started on "done" means built but tools and mess going away isn't part of "done" before he's on to the next job.

Maybe shared parental leave does have a bearing on this then? I did all the biologically female stuff, but everything else we shared. His paternity leave when I went back to work allowed him to be in sole charge. The shouts of mummy and daddy at night are even, possibly skewed more towards my husband as he’s a bit of a soft touch!!

Yes I'm sure it does. It wasn't really an option for us because although he was entitled to it and in theory could have had it, in practice we know it would have affected his long term prospects at that company. It's a typically male industry in trade and construction, most men there don't even take the 2 weeks paternity leave, and colleagues raise their eyebrows when he has a day off in the holiday to do childcare. But it's a good job in a rural community, jobs don't come by often and although he could fight and 'be the change' we have to be pragmatic about it and think long term. So I feel like we are contributing to the problem in many ways and I suspect many people are in the same boat!
My company (I WFH for a company 2 hours away) is fantastic about promoting shared leave and it's absolutely normal there.

Yes and this is why I don't want children tbh. Women are expected to work full time now and still don't most of the childcare and things around the house.

My DH can’t understand why I’m not jumping for joy at using up annual leave doing more work and being more stressed than usual, which is what a holiday abroad amounts to with very small DC.
so we compromised this year and are doing it all again anyway, but this time I’ll be sign posting each and every time he makes my life harder. Should not have to, he’s an intelligent man and usually we are pretty even at home, but when he clicks in to holiday mode he expects me to happily pick up whatever he decides to put down. Whoopee fucking doo for me and my “relaxing holiday” 😒