Am I a far right extremist?

[Isitme245]

I had a conversation with my best friend of 25 years the other day and she called me a far right extremist and how my views are scary, dangerous and 'nazi coded'
I was really shocked as I didn't think any of what I said was bad. I'm not a particularly avid supporter of any political party and very much keep opinions to myself. She's very supportive of labour and anti trump and always has been. Usually when she asks me my opinions I just don't want to get into it but I did the other night and now I feel bad.

Here's the breakdown:

• she sent me an article and told me that Nigel Farage is going to ban abortion eventually if he wins an election. I read the article and pointed out he only suggested lowering the abortion cut off date to 22 weeks (not 24 as it is now). I told her it wasn't the end of the world and it's reasonable if you read his reasons. I also made the point that men shouldn't really be getting involved in abortion law but that what he said wasn't the end of the world.

• she asked me about immigration and I said that it's great but that we should be prioritising skilled immigrants and have stronger immigration laws. She also asked about asylum seekers and hotels and I said that we should have stronger laws about monitoring people and collecting documentation when people arrive.

• she sent me and asked about Elon Musk's Nazi salute and I said I didn't interpret it that way

• I said that immigrants who rape or murder should be deported.

To me this feels really reasonable and not over the top but she really attacked me for it? Now I feel really awkward and uncomfortable talking to her. Is this far right??

Good for you?

Yes, why can’t people see what he’s doing, they’re too bound up in their own sense of righteousness and hatred to actually see what’s happening.,

It’s nonsensical that to accuse those who are saying Musk’s “gesture” wasn’t a Nazi salute of being far-right Nazis.

Surely an actual Nazi would be only too eager to claim that Musk was a supporter and that he did indeed do a Nazi salute!

Looks like not everyone has learnt the lessons of history. Not everyone liked the Jews. Not everyone liked the Tutsi. Not everyone liked people with glasses or Black South Africans. Bigoted ok but everyone’s entitled to their opinion I guess. Are we saying all that victimisation was fine now? Didn’t cause a lot of problems in the long run? Probably not. Who knows?

Yet none of the self-styled GC can see a problem with marginalising trans and non binary people in the US. Nobody can see where that might lead. It’s all good because there’s only 2 biological sexes and people are mentally ill if they don’t conform to a gender ID that matches their sex and gender definitely doesn’t exist and anyway they’re all men trying to gain access to women’s supposedly safe spaces.
Yeah. Let Trump turn public opinion against the non-conforming. It could only happen to them. Not to us.

Don’t bother coming at me with your GC views. Or do. Whatever. I won’t be responding.

I think the people who've "forgotten" how bad the Nazis were are probably the people defending the obvious and intended use of his salute.

History always repeats itself, we don't learn from history. I think it was Kurt Vonnegut who expressed the idea that we should intentionally ignore history as we just seem to use it as an instruction manual rather than learn anything from it

That’s a really interesting point, it does feel like it’s all a game to him. I’ve seen people who’ve worked with him say similar things. How insignificant our little lives must be in his eyes to see the world in that way.

I’m sorry, I’m not sure what part of my answer you’re responding to so I’ll break it down into questions?

1. For some reason you have taken my comment that “some people think Churchill is worse than Hitler” as saying we shouldn’t look at Churchills character. Can you please point to where I have said we shouldn’t critique Churchill?
2. Can you please point to where I have set out an idealised view of WW2?
3. where have I said there is no comparison between 1930s Europe and today (although I would point out quite a few differences)?
4. What I have described is a more rounded view of WW2, pointing out that people forget or don’t know about the atrocities and ideological drivers of say Russia and Japan. Do you think Russia and Japan should not be brought into any analyse of WW2?
5. what have I said that you interpreted that I think a non academic approach to history is desirable?

im afraid what you have done is construct an argument that bears no relation to what I was saying and decided to argue against that instead of discussing what I actually said.

Oh I know how bad the Nazis were (and many of the other players in WW2). If people really want to learn from history, forget the details and look at how often the tactic of divide and conquer has been used. This is the pertinent point here, and the trap people are falling (actually willingly jumping) into,

lol! So you join a discussion forum, put down your (quite frankly narrow unthinking) views and then state you’re not willing to listen to other views. You really are part of the problem if you won’t discuss and only want to rant. You think your views are the only valid ones. This is as dangerous as Musk.

On this Musk thing, if I gave a friend a thumbs-up as a sign of approval, a passing Russian might see that as an obscene gesture (thumbs-up is seen that way in many countries)… So which is it, approval or obscene? It obviously depends on the intent and context.

So, yes, Musk can make a gesture that is physically indistinguishable from a Nazi salute, but that necessarily doesn’t make it a “Nazi salute”, and more than the thumbs-up in the above scenario would have been an insult.

Intent and context are everything with gestures, so on the basis that Musk wasn’t at a Nazi event, his comments surrounding his gestures weren’t “Nazi”, he has no history of Nazi support, and he has rejected the notion that it was a Nazi salute,
means it wasn’t in any meaningful way a Nazi salute!

Holding this view should have no bearing on whether you love or loathe the man.

he has no history of Nazi support

He spoke in support of the AfD at a rally today.

The AfD has neo-Nazis in its ranks.

Great post..people are falling into the trap of “oh I don’t like musk therefore I’m going to jump on everything and look at everything he does in the worst possible way ignoring any critical thinking “

I’m have no issue whatsoever with people not conforming to gender stereotypes… That’s fine by me… But not conforming to a masculine stereotype doesn’t make you a woman, it makes you a man who doesn’t conform to a masculine stereotype!

Really?
It is a global abhorred salute. It is not something that only a few people have heard of.
The context is he is visibly supporting other neo Nazis.
QED.

Challah I've got to hand it to you. You really do see men with gender identities as being marginalised and put at risk for being asked to stay out of women's single sex spaces don't you?

Does that extend to the rapid onset prison dysphoria trans women who, despite being convicted for sex offences, have ID'd their way into women's prisons in the US? The women in that scenario clearly don't mean a thing to you do they? Just collateral damage for the 'poor' males.

I know you don't respond in good faith because of your other posts on this thread so these are rhetorical question which I don't expect you to respond to (at least not in a sensible manner).

Actually, other uses of this sign still exist. But he was playing people using it to cause uproar and people to start arguing. Context is everything. Who are you suggesting Misk was saluting or greeting on that room?

I think that our problems are up and down not left right. It's interesting to me that someone right up there wants to stoke the right left debate. I wonder why that might be? 🙄

About 5 years ago, you would be considered probably right of centre.
But now left has gone so far to the left, the spectrum has changed and you seem more right wing compared to them.
If your friend is a woke liberal, she absolutely will not want to hear your point of view.

How did you feel when Trump bragged about being responsible for Roe v. Wade being overturned?

Women are dying in the US because of this decision. How many women have died because of identification laws?

Funny how all the Musk apologists are ignoring his close relationship with the AfD.

I've come to the conclusion that Challah must be a transgender man. I can't see any other reason for their obsessive shoehorning of trans rights into every discussion or their weird insistence that transgender men are an incredibly marginalised group of people.

@Feelingathomenow I don't know who he was saluting or greeting, nor do I care ( the room was full of Magamaniacs I think). I just can see with my two eyes what he did. I also understand his recent views regarding AfD, that were doubled down on today I believe, so for me there is no question that he is at the very best an apologist for Nazi ideologists?
I don't know what other uses of this sign exist especially in the context of his disclosed views.

You mean the ‘existing bias’ that takes the evidence of someone calling an autistic man expressing enthusiasm a Nazi?

Yes, in that respect I am biased. I think your conclusion is idiotic.

Do you actually think that the Nazis put children to their deaths in gas chambers on day 1? It started with demonising and scapegoating Jewish people.

My uncle came to the UK from Austria as a child on the Kindertransport and he wrote a book about his experiences. The persecution was incremental. He says that within days of the Anschluss, Jewish children were segregated at school and the other children stopped playing with them and a week or two later they were thrown out of school.

The dehumanising language that was used about them was similar to the language that some people use about the migrants arriving by boat.

Elon Musk supports the AfD in Germany and Tommy Robinson in the UK and I would describe both of them as fascists.

Obama left an open goal on Roe v Wade because, despite it being a pre-election promise, the Democrats didn't see fit to codify it to prevent this from happening. At the time it was very foreseeable that the religious right would take steps to overturn abortion rights. Women didn't matter enough to the Democrats then. They knew then that women would die.

Every woman is impacted by men being given access to women's single sex spaces and sport. The most vulnerable women being the most impacted. It is only privileged women who can argue this doesn't and won't impact them.