Nurseries for 12 week-old babies - ok or not?

[weatherthestorm]

Inspired by the current boarding school thread ... Now that there is widespread awareness of 'boarding school syndrome', are we not, as a society, in danger of sleepwalking into raising a generation whose mental well-being is going to be impacted by even earlier separation into a form of institutional care? Will the next generation be defined by 'childcare syndrome', alongside and exacerbating the mental health epidemic that is already emerging through unlimited access to social media content? Will we look back in disbelief that we ever thought it was ok to put babies, as young as 12 weeks into long days in nurseries, where they spend most of their waking lives before they even have any concept of themselves as a whole, separate being? AIBU that we need to lose the taboo / discomfort around engaging with this important issue, before it's too late?

Well said. Let's look into solutions .

Here is my ten cents. Why are so many people on here still saying 'mothers' out kids in nursery. Fathers do too. Let's stop making this a female issue!

Second of all, parents wishes count too. Not all parents are sitting at home feeling guilty about sending their kids to nursery. Some choose to send them because they actually want to. I don't think it's right to make these parents feel like they need to apologise for nursery.

My kids both enjoyed nursery and have made long term friends from it. They didn't start at 12w but I really don't think it's don't them any harm. I also went to one and I loved it.

Its not the same as boarding school at all. You go home every day!

@Biffbaff Sure this is true. I'm just responding to the poster who said sending a baby to nursery is similar to an ancestral 'village' type upbringing. It really isn't.

Obviously for some children, being in full time childcare is an advantage because their parents can't look after them in the way they need. This is why the free hours of childcare were originally introduced: children from some families needed the professional setting to counteract the fact that home was chaotic or parents were busy.

But imo overall, if the family is stable, parents moderately educated and there is enough money around, institutionalisation at very young ages is worse for the children. From about 3 years old it's ok.

You might think you can have both,are you sure you aren't getting any?
Why can't we build a society where women are allowed to spend time with their babies without having to choose between them and career or deluding ourselves that "we can have it all"

Do you mean parents must work? Many kids have Dads.

Also why should 'mum' not choose to work? Maybe she loves her career?

Mothers are more important than fathers in this debate, because 1. they are much, much more likely to want to be at home with the baby and 2. single-parent households are overwhelmingly female.

I 100% agree that a mother sitting at home bored, depressed and resenting the baby should not stay at home with the baby. It's not good for either of them. But for the majority of mothers who WANT to be at home for some of the time, it should be possible for that to happen, as it's actually better for the mum and the child. It's just not better for government coffers.

My DD worked in a Nursey in 2912/13, they took babies that young. The families that used childcare from that age was because of cultural factors. If you remove the availability, unregulated childcare will be used. Paid childcare is just replacing what the GM/family would do. For many, the downside of living in the UK is a lack of family for childcare and that includes so the parents/mother can travel.

It works both ways. BOTH of them choose to work full time to further their careers so they stick a 12 week old into full time nursery because their careers are more important. This is not a gender issue.

My mil went back to work when my husband was 6 weeks old because she wanted to. She proudly talks about how she "went to whoever could have him" while she and his dad worked all week and went to the pub at weekends. Both go on about how he was fine, he was always independent, they had lovely holidays. Dh tells a very different story - never knowing where he was going one day to the next and as he got older, coming home to an empty house and starting tea. He doesn't remember most of their holidays, funnily enough.

We've made almost all of our decisions around wanting to be around for our son so he doesn't have the same memories.

I know a lot of people have no choice and I think that in itself is a huge issue for society - how can kids not have some mental health issues when their parents are permanently stressed, tired and skint?

But to pretend that's the case for everyone is missing another issue - those that choose to have kids but can't/won't accept their life will change because, shocker, those kids need present parents around.

You see it constantly on here - we both work, we don't want to cut back on hours but nursery/wraparound care is expensive and we're always rushing around, weekends are so stressful, we can't handle the DC... And many many replies are often "outsource, put them in weekend clubs, can they do another day in nursery" babies are boring, toddlers are arseholes, little kids are the worst, they won't remember... No wonder kids are struggling to be honest.

In terms of solutions, I think housing costs are a major factor. But mat leave could be longer. In some countries your employer has to hold your job for a long time (2-3 years?) even if you are no longer getting maternity pay. For some families they could scrape through on one salary for a few years if they knew mum was going back to her old job at the end of it. Instead of pouring money into 30 hours free childcare from age 1, why not subsidise a parent to be at home for 2-3years?

I was in childcare from age 6 weeks. Who knows if it affected me in some way, but I was glad to get the role model of a working mother, an involved father and an equally split household.

Personally I do think there should be a move to a 4 day working week for men and women, as I think its good for children to see both sexes in a caring role, it’s good for women to have financial independence and it’s good for caring to be seen as something valuable and worthwhile. Some childcare is nearly inevitable where both parents work but if we want it to never be full time childcare we need to move away from expecting “full time” work.

Another solution is normalisation of both parents working PT. My DH and I both work 3 days a week, with kids at a childminder on the one day we overlap. Obviously this only works if you earn enough to make it viable but it is more tax-efficient and better for long-term careers than one person working and one person not.

I don’t think I can have both, I know I can because I do it every day. I’m not at all deluded.

That society would have to include men taking some time out of work and having more paternity leave etc in place to make the workplace more equal upon return for women but I just don’t see a society where that happens.

So I went back to work because in a male dominated career, it was go back at 12 weeks or never have the chance to catch up and forget any career progression.

Also would like to see a use it or lose it longer parental leave for fathers/ the other parent on the birth certificate. I can see that might be unfair on lone parents though so maybe if nobody else is on birth certificate they could access the extra time.

You DON’T have both. You have a career.

Of course I have both.

But you are presumably criticising parents who choose to put their kids in? It is the right decision for some people. You dot have enough evidence to say that it's causing extreme stress and anxiety. I think my kids would have preferred going at 12 weeks as they wouldn't have been as aware of what's going on! I would have been happy returning to work part time at 12 weeks. In fact I would have preferred that to lots of mat leave but I couldt afford the cut in salary.

In hunter gatherer societies, mums are not the only ones doing the childcare. Maybe we should be looking at why mums are now expected to be full time care givers when for the majority of human existence that has not been the case. What is soo bad about nursery es that you assume it is a negative environment for a young child? Is it acceptable for young children to be cared for by namnies or grand parents? What about childminders?

No you don’t. You farm your very small baby out to a nursery full time, 5 days a week for someone else to take care of so you can climb the corporate ladder. You most certainly do not have it all. The nursery has your kids more than you do by a vast majority. How on earth is that having both. You made a decision to have kids and pay someone else to look after them so you can further your career, that’s not having it all. Not even close.

I what a lot of nonsense! So a women should give up her expectations and go and live in an area /place she doesn't know, in a home she can afford on benifits rather than put her kid into nursery? What do you think that would do you think her mental health? What would that do to her baby?

What a stupid response.

I disagree. I’m not from the UK but used to work as a live out au pair/nanny there. I have looked after so many tiny babies (with no experience back then) because of extremely wealthy parents simply wanting to go back to work. It’s sad. So glad I’m in a country now with basically free childcare and everything working.

It was Shirley Conran ( I think) who said that women can have it all but they can't have it all at once.

What is ‘make strange’?

Well they can have it, just not in the UK for some reason.

Do you only farm them out when they are 3 months old? Or is it suddenly just sending your baby to nursery when maternity leave generally ends at about 9 months? Or are they farmed out at 9 months too? 🤔

I agree with you in part, but I don't think it necessarily has to be the mum who stays at home with the child - a dad could be an able and willing main caregiver, and he might earn less than the mum.

I do wish we hadn't fucked up our society, economy and housing system so that choice was taken away from families, though. It has feel like it's gone wayyyyy past the feminist "have it all" thing and ended up feeling like we're just worker bees breeding the next generation of worker bees to take care of us in our old age till we're gone and the cycle is repeated.