Nurseries for 12 week-old babies - ok or not?

[weatherthestorm]

Inspired by the current boarding school thread ... Now that there is widespread awareness of 'boarding school syndrome', are we not, as a society, in danger of sleepwalking into raising a generation whose mental well-being is going to be impacted by even earlier separation into a form of institutional care? Will the next generation be defined by 'childcare syndrome', alongside and exacerbating the mental health epidemic that is already emerging through unlimited access to social media content? Will we look back in disbelief that we ever thought it was ok to put babies, as young as 12 weeks into long days in nurseries, where they spend most of their waking lives before they even have any concept of themselves as a whole, separate being? AIBU that we need to lose the taboo / discomfort around engaging with this important issue, before it's too late?

This is my belief as well.

I chose childminder for mine when I went back part time at 6 months. I wanted DC to have a stable substitute "mum" for the times I had to work.

I also felt strongly that I wanted a "home" environment for them too.

I know there has been a major shift away from childminders to nurseries and whilst they are fine for older children I really think we are going to see problems in child emotional development in the future. Most I expect will be fine but a minority will be badly served by current childcare practices.

Sorry to hear about your husband. My father went to boarding school. I know my father’s school was closer to a borstal than a boarding school in terms of the cold, harsh environment. I will say though that his home was also a cold, harsh environment. It had been shown the impact of a small amount of caring on extremely traumatised children, even in some very extreme situations, can make a significant difference to a traumatised child. My father would never have got any of that care in any environment home or school as in turn he was a cold, harsh man largely devoid of empathy in no small part due to his upbringing. As a child I absolutely adored him but he damaged me a lot growing up.

So I think being treated daily with great care is what will make most children’s lives good enough. Most parents these days can achieve that even with nursery, even with school and decent parents genuinely care about their children’s feelings in a way that often was never remotely conceptualised in previous generations.

Where we are going wrong I feel is due to that pendulum swing from the last generation whereby what you did mattered then and not how you felt. Now we are way to focussed on how our children feel in the here and now and not enough on what they are doing - the stuff that gives them purpose, self esteem and accomplishments. Also I think they are getting very nihilistic thanks to us landing the very real pressure of sorting out climate change on their shoulders.

There were plenty of nurseries in the 80s an 90s
Lots of people at work used them
TBf it was a professional service firm

I agree that putting young children in full time long daycare likely isn't optimal for the majority of lbabies.

I think, however, in general, people are more than "open to the idea" that daycare is bad. In general, the default assumption seems to be that it's bad.

We also carry this idealised notion of doting grandparents providing some daycare. I don't think that is ever going to reliably happen for most people. It's a regular theme on here that parents should not expect regular childcare from grandparents.

I think that the availability of part time work, housing affordability, and economic equity would go a long way to giving women real choices about those early years.

Maybe it depends on where you live.

In my town in the Surrey stockbroker belt there was one and it was newly opened in 1990. The vast majority of childcare provision available locally was childminder. Plenty of course had nannies and au pairs, but daycare nurseries were only just starting up.

Our dc didn't go to nursery that young but since we've started using nursery we've never looked back. We've had great key workers, a lovely environment and lots of stimulation. It's really helped DC's development and I think it's important for them to be with other children. They don't go full time but I wouldn't mind if they did.

Babies have been attending nurseries for decades in multiple cultures, and they do have extended contact with parents on a daily basis + weekends. It's not like boarding school.

Hmm… I’m thinking no on this one. As long as the childcare is extremely high quality.

The reason why I think that, is because historically mothers haven’t been the only people to look after their babies during the day - the whole cliche of “it takes a village” - and across cultures women aren’t the only people taking care of their babies.

But I am not sure.

My two DC went to nursery 3 full days a week (8am to 6pm), one from 7m and one from 11m. They are 22 and 18 now and doing well. They both stayed at the nursery until they started school and both have very positive memories of it, though not of course of the baby room itself. I found the nursery to be great, staff turnover was low and they were both attached to several of the staff. The 7m old settled in from day 1 and always seemed happy there. The 11m old took a couple of weeks to settle, and then enjoyed it. Very rarely any crying on drop off and pleased to see me at pick up. I look back on that time very positively, no regrets. My limited experience is that nursery can be great for babies.

increasingly 'the norm' now is children in full-time nurseries from a young age until school. Then, school starts and they're still doing long days because they're in for 'breakfast clubs' and after- school / 'wraparound' care
What I really don't get is why this is perceived by many MN as a punishment to the kids. I was in wrap around care myself and loved it. I was an only child and find home quite boring. My mum was not one to get into baking or creative art making, and indeed, I think very few mothers are.

My kids went to wrap around care and loved it too. Of course there were times when they would have preferred to be home when they didn't feel too well but most the time, they did so many more things than they would have done at hone, including cooking, art making, playing football with mates. Its not like they are expected to do school work there.

My experience, now that my kids are young adults, is that those who had busy lives, wrap around care, holiday clubs etc...have adapted to adult life and working FT much better than those who went home and frankly, spent most of their time in front of the TV or playing with their Nintendo.

Wrap around care stopped when they stayed secondary school, and as I left for work before they woke up, they had to get ready and get themselves to school. They have never, not once, made it late. I used to hear parents complaining how they couldn't get their kids up, and morning routine were nightmares and it sounded so strange to me.

Just like me, I feel my kids grew to be responsible, mature and resilient children because they got to become so gradually during their childhood rather then suddenly as they became adults.

What I really don't get is why this is perceived by many MN as a punishment to the kids. I was in wrap around care myself and loved it.

My middle DD was the same she ended up going to wraparound care longer than she needed as she loved the socialising. Cost us a fortune but she had missed out on school during Covid and this was one of the ways she got to spend more time with the friends she had really missed.

DT’s hated it if we collected them early from after school club - they loved the food there, the range of activities and extra time playing with their friends.

@FiveWhatByFiveWhat I said most Mothers don't want to leave their children at 12 weeks - obviously some will want too. No where did I say every Mother.

It's up to the parents to decide when their child starts nursery, depending on their own individual needs and circumstances. End of. It has zero to do with anyone else.

Neither did I?

Because we are talking specifically about 12 week old babies

In an ideal world no you wouldn't have 12 week babies in nursery but the reality is that people have to and don't have any other choice most likely to be able to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. I am sure those who do would rather not have to but that's life and they shouldn't be made to feel like a bad parent or they are harming their child by doing what in most instances is a necessity.

But why are we? A small minority of babies go that early - while most nurseries say they will take babies that young I've never seen one where it was a regular occurrence. OP referred to 'a generation' put in childcare 'as young as 12 weeks' (and then later in the thread said she believed this to be entirely new, which is just not true). Focusing on the youngest children but then sort of generalising to them all seems disingenous to me.

I agree it’s a small minority. I feel it’s likely that the majority of women who put their babies into childcare 12 weeks or younger are doing so out of desperate necessity; be that financial reasons, or physical or mental health. I don’t think shaming these women is helpful. I understand this was not the OPs intent when starting this thread but inevitably the thread descended into that, predictably.

The only mother I know doing this developed a serious health problem after she gave birth. The respite means she can look after her baby at other times.

My sister stopped at 2 kids so she wouldn't have to put any resulting children in nursery full time

Mine went from 16 and 20 weeks part time. And I didn't even need to return to work. We had zero family help and I just needed a break.
Over twenty years on they're smart independent kids at uni with no long lasting issues. We all bonded just fine. Never a single regret.

I have seen evidence that indicates that the best outcomes with daycare are when the family has a choice as to nursery / no nursery.

Isn’t the whole point of maternity leave is that it gives the parent the first year to be at home with their baby?
I get that it’s on limited pay but don’t people save for that before having the baby?

@KnittyNell Life doesn’t work out that way for everyone, funnily enough. And many/most women do not take a full year, for many reasons.

Not everyone can afford to save.
Not everyone wants to stay home for a year.