Nurseries for 12 week-old babies - ok or not?

[weatherthestorm]

Inspired by the current boarding school thread ... Now that there is widespread awareness of 'boarding school syndrome', are we not, as a society, in danger of sleepwalking into raising a generation whose mental well-being is going to be impacted by even earlier separation into a form of institutional care? Will the next generation be defined by 'childcare syndrome', alongside and exacerbating the mental health epidemic that is already emerging through unlimited access to social media content? Will we look back in disbelief that we ever thought it was ok to put babies, as young as 12 weeks into long days in nurseries, where they spend most of their waking lives before they even have any concept of themselves as a whole, separate being? AIBU that we need to lose the taboo / discomfort around engaging with this important issue, before it's too late?

I don't think it is comparable as parents have the child minimum of daily. The care may be for a few hours once a week up to the full-time five days week model.

That is in no way comparable to the boarding method. Nor does the variables lend itself to a simple answer. Studies would have to include significant number of variables to gain confidence in the research findings.

The research into this is quite clear that nursery has a big psychological impact on babies when they are aged under 2.

Apparently every 8 minutes babies in nursery experience or exhibit some form of aggression from other babies.

Over 2 the impact is better as children can begin to form attachments with one another, not just their primary caregiver.

Personally I think it's a travesty. For my DC I employ a nanny for 2 days a week and a childminder for 3 days. Both allow kids to attach to one adult figure, in place of parents

Nursery and institutionalised care shouldn't be so normal imo

I do think in generations times people will look back and be shocked at young babies doing long days away from their primary caregivers

YANBU
Everything we know about attachment suggests that babies and small children need to bond with a single (or a few) reliable caregivers.

Nurseries do try to provide this, by giving each child a key worker. But, tbh, I'm not happy that they can guarantee enough consistency. With the best will in the world there will be staff turn over. And kids have to adapt to completely new people when they move up from baby to toddler room.
I chose a childminder for mine, because I felt that they would attach better to a single person.
I remember mumsnetters being a bit sniffly about that, at the time and suggesting I use a nursery instead. But I wasn't convinced.

Yh, I think some are being wilfully obtuse but I think that's understandable because there are lots of parents using more paid childcare then they probably would like to.

I'm glad we are at a point where nursery for 12 week olds is not a norm. Babies at that age should absolutely be with their main caregivers. I think the real interesting debate is at what age and how much nursery is the ideal for young children? I think some nursery/pre school is good for them and the 15 hours for three year olds was introduced on that idea/research. But what about one and two year olds?

And not everyone wants to stay home!

Going against the grain here - but personally I put DS in nursery full time from 12 weeks and it was very good for us. We did (and still do!) have a great bond, never had any attachment issues, never had any crying or refusal to go in/go home. He had a great bond with his key worker which really helped!

I did it because I had to work, but also it did wonders for my mental health, and I feel like having a routine was good for us both.

Just sharing my experience! It may not work for everyone, but I'm really glad it worked for us - there's also a lot of assumptions if it ever comes up that I was 'forced' into it for financial reasons, and making it sound like DS and I should be pitied. Ultimately, I could have claimed benefits and stayed off a bit longer, or switched jobs to something I could have done from home in the evenings somehow. I had choices - and I feel like I made the right one.

It's normally a case of needs must.

But I wouldn't be happy sending any non verbal child into a childcare setting.

However, it's often very necessary.

It would be great if Maternity/carers leave could be taken for one year, or two years at half the rate.

Flexibility of allowing both parents to take some parental leave, and choose what best suits would help.

Flexible temporary stopping of paying house loans could help.
Parents who save up before taking leave will have the most choice.

I was a stay at home parent for 4 years between the age of 34 and 38. I had paid tax for 18 years before I became a sahp and since then I have paid tax. Many SAHPs are high earners both pre and post their period of providing childcare for their child.

It's not as clear cut as you think. Many, many working parents are receiving government funding for childcare AND benefits.

The OP isn't criticising individual mothers. She is very clearly calling for an evidence-based (ie not hysteric, anecdotal or personalised) examination of the impact of separation from the mother in very young babies given the already overwhelming evidence of the lifelong damage this can cause in emotional regulation and the ability to form stable relationships.

She has not once proposed a solution to the problem but solutions might include longer and better paid maternity leave, changes to benefits available and other social solutions.

To reject this discussion isn't in the interests of society or babies really.

No one is saying that bad outcomes are inevitable but OP is asking that studies are carried out to better understand the risks and how these might be minimised or avoided. Surely this is what civilised societies do?

I can’t really see how nursery could be beneficial for a 12 week old. Or any young babies to be honest. I would rather use a childminder where they get to see the world a bit.

How do you anticipate people will be caring for children in a few generations time, given we currently live in an environment where two incomes are necessary to raise a family and there’s no clear route out of that reality.

How will society afford to move back to a ‘one parent at home’ model, and to what extent is this beneficial for mothers too re jobs, financial independence etc.

Is there any evidence base for the premise that it’s use of childcare which is leading to poor mental health outcomes in children? It’s ultimately just guesswork without proper research. An awful lot about family and societal structure has changed in recent generations, it’s far too complex to state that negative health outcomes must be because more children are in childcare than previously.

mine went at 8 months and 12 months
Now adults who show no signs of any issues

I don't think nurseries are right for 12 month old babies let alone 12 week olds. I wish our society could go back to the norm of mums being home for their very young children and wages being sufficient enough to live on one wage. It's a massively taboo subject though, especially as feminism has done a right number on women claiming that they can have it all but in reality it's just not possible.

I sent my 16 week old baby to Nursery full time and I never regretted it. Had I been at home I certainly would not have been doing activities all day. My baby is 28 now & very well rounded.

All my 3 children started nursery at 9-10 months.

We unfortunately have no other choice as no close family nearby and our family wouldn't be reliable for childcare anyway.

We both have to work.

All my children are extremely well-settled in nursery/school now. They are confident and outgoing.

I think it's probably ideal to stay with mum a bit longer, but a lot of families don't have a choice.

It's usually wealthier women who can afford to stay at home.

I don't think my children are damaged. Their key workers never changed in nursery and I see the nursery as "my village" rather than strangers.

How much is it that these nurseries exist because the Mum must work, and how much that Mums must work because the nursery exists and therefore they can

Given that many of the mums on here would be those who were in nursery at 12 weeks it would be interesting to hear how they feel their attachment is.

I agree, this is a major taboo.

Absolutely! With my first two children I would loved to have had longer at home with them but couldn't afford it, with my third (my circumstances had changed a lot), I could be a sahm for the first 3 years. Income made all the difference!

All those saying that it's wealthier mum's who have the option not to work - this isn't the case where I live, at all!

Professional, well earning parents can't afford to take extended gaps for many reasons, so go back to work around the 10-12 month mark, albeit often part time and with quite favourable conditions (some WFH, or flexible hours). Poorer mums are the ones who can afford to stay home, it's a lot easier to give up a minimum wage job and move onto benefits than it is a professional wage.

There is no snark or judgement in this - I have a very large age gap with mine and have been both the sahm on benefits and the professional mum leaving an 11 month at nursery. Long term I know which one works out better and which I'd chose again (not being on benefits!) but it's not true to suggest that wealthy women primarily make up the stay at home cohort

I don’t know. Personally I wouldn’t put my babe in at 12 weeks. I agree with PP who said separation anxiety might be worse at 9 months to a year than those who have been in at the beginning. My son did struggle with going at a year old.

Having said that I was put into nursery early and have never had anxiety or suffered separation despair. I can’t even remember it as an adult. Maybe if the symptoms come up in another way then I am affected and don’t know?

My partners family on the other hand were all stay at home with mum and a ‘village’ family until primary start. It’s lovely really. They are all super close and have such lovely memories of childhood. It’s idyllic on paper. In reality they are all varying degrees of anxious messes as adults. Couldn’t cope with moving out/ going to uni and it took multiple attempts before they managed it. Even now 20s and 30s the majority of them struggle to function without mum and dad.

So it is interesting. DP and I talked about it as it’s such a recognisable difference and he too believes it’s the root cause of their family’s problems. So we decided we were going to do nursery. Much to the families disapproval.

@SlugsWon But you can do that as well. The truth is you do not want to live on such a low income.