Nurseries for 12 week-old babies - ok or not?

[weatherthestorm]

Inspired by the current boarding school thread ... Now that there is widespread awareness of 'boarding school syndrome', are we not, as a society, in danger of sleepwalking into raising a generation whose mental well-being is going to be impacted by even earlier separation into a form of institutional care? Will the next generation be defined by 'childcare syndrome', alongside and exacerbating the mental health epidemic that is already emerging through unlimited access to social media content? Will we look back in disbelief that we ever thought it was ok to put babies, as young as 12 weeks into long days in nurseries, where they spend most of their waking lives before they even have any concept of themselves as a whole, separate being? AIBU that we need to lose the taboo / discomfort around engaging with this important issue, before it's too late?

A lot of people are not forced to do this they choose to so they can further their career. No money worries at all, just want to better their career. I feel terribly sorry for the parents on here who had no choice. That is so hard.

She is saying she absolutely bonded with ger child by making the choice to put them into care at 12 weeks even though she didn’t have to. You cannot bond with a child fully if they are gone all day every day from 12 weeks.

That's nice for you to decide @manifestthis but I absolutely DID manage to bond with DS in this time. It's your opinion it's not possible. Your opinion is welcome on the threads - as is everyone's. You telling specific people they couldn't possibly have a bond because you think so, is not.

I think this is a great post and I do agree with you, systemic change is absolutely needed. However there will always be blame and responsibility and finger pointing at individuals instead, and more judgement cast upon women who are trying their best. This thread shows that, sadly.

There needs to be societal change and a paradigm shift in how we function as a society as so much is fundamentally broken. Trauma and abuse is rife, intergenerational trauma exists everywhere regardless of culture and class divides. There is so much misinformation about mental health and a woeful lack of funding for services, parental mental health is so critical and support for parents is minimal. Health and social care inequalities serve to create more barriers and issues too. Poverty is a key driver towards poor maternal mental health which of course negatively impacts the infant. In such times I am often relieved babies and children are in nurseries rather than abusive and neglectful households. It is all very concerning and demoralising.

If you think you fully bonded with your 12 week old when they were away from you more time than they were with you.. fair enough.

Just wading in to say that it is absolutely possible to bond with your baby despite them being in childcare / looked after by others from 12 weeks. It is the quality and consistency of the relationship which is what really matters. Bonding and attachment takes places over the early years and beyond, it is not a static process.

You've made your point, now you're just being nasty. What is best statistically isn't always what is best individually.
Everyone has different reasons for the choices they make, and most parents do what they think is best for their children.
You can't possibly claim that using childcare makes it impossible to bond. That's an absurd claim backed up by nothing.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I come from a family of career women and babies went to childcare before turning 1 years old. Yet we have turn out very well adjusted, as children and then adults.

I don't think the issue lies in childcare vs mother, but about the quality of the care. A fantastic childminder can be much more beneficial for a baby than an exhausted, stressed and depressed mother. Reading threads here, the latter is not uncommon.

In the end, babies will thrive in excellent care, love and happiness overall. It doesn't have to come 100% from the mother or father.

I of course don't remember my childminder from when I was 1 years old, but I do remember the one I had from 4, and all my memories are warm and fond.

@manifestthis - 16 weeks I said, fulltime. Yes I was and I've never regretted it. Financially - which is not the only consideration - very few companies pay more than the full amount after 6 weeks. That aside, I know many children who would have benefited from their mothers using some form of childcare. Children who are ill prepared for school. I hate this argument and how it pits us against each other. We're all very different.

and what amount would you suggest?
matching an individual's salary?
insane idea

Of course the woman bonded with her child. Maybe she could have bonded better early days with her child maybe not, maybe she will be a better mother to teenagers - who have very different standards for who they let influence them than infants - than many SAHM will be, or maybe not, life is a long game.

Children are absolutely primed to bond with their parents, it is primal and instinctive and necessary for their survival. I think the bond will be just fine.

You want to be home with very young infants I applaud that just as I applaud breastfeeding mothers or any other parenting decision but there isn’t a single way of doing parenting that guarantees good outcomes and there are no perfect outcomes anyway even if the parent made every “perfect” choice - that isn’t how life works .

In fact that woman you are chastising may get a better outcome from her parenting than yours or she might not and we will never know such is the complexity of parenting and life.

100s of children across the world have for decades, been 'farmed out' to nurseries, or to 'Mrs Smith up the road who gave us breakfast cos our parents had left for work' , and have survived and thrived
Why try and change the whole world because you think a couple of children who barely know day from night, will be permanently traumatised because their mummy or daddy wasn't with them until they were 27?

What's best for their child or best for them? They have enough money to take the full 9 months allowed but decide not to avail of that for no other reason that to further their careers. That is not, by any stretch of the imagination in the best interest of a 12 week old baby.

Well they aren’t gone all day, every day are they? As mentioned upthread mine were with me round 75% of the time over the year and away 25%. They were both breastfed till they were over one and we coslept, with them waking for feeds and hugs overnight up to around 18 months. I love that you seem to think 12 week old babies would just sleep 7-7 so that time doesn’t count as parenting. It does make me question if you have that much experience of young kids at all.

I have 4 kids just to clarify. Taking the time your kids were in bed does not make up 75% of the time you spend with them. They were away from you completely full time, 5 days a week and you grasping at straws thinking cosleeping and breastfeeding makes up 75% of time spent with them.

Also, can we stop with the 'away from you more than they're with you'?
When children are older in nursery and have dropped naps/sleep through the night this may, sometimes, be the case. But at 12 weeks DS spent a lot of the 9 hours a day he was at nursery asleep! From pickup at 5pm, it was all snuggling/breastfeeding for HOURS, then sleeping in a snuzpod, with regular wake-ups for a feed during the night. Tell me again how this 15 hours every 24 isn't bonding just because it's a weekday?

How am I being nasty? People are giving their opinion as to why they think it’s ok and I am giving my opinion on why I think it absolutely isn’t when you have the choice and money not to do so.

You are personally attacking posters, suggesting they will not have bonded with their baby, accusing women of choosing their career over their child.

It's possible to disagree with someone without personally attacking them.

You just sound judgemental and spiteful.

Those are often the same thing. Life isn't always black and white.

Do you stay awake all night watching them snuggle or do you get any sleep yourself of these magic 15 hours?

What is best for their family unit, as a whole and over the mid to long term. While you seem determined to ignore anyone saying this it’s not just about money.

They HAVE chosen their career over their 12 week old. Absolutely they have. They had the choice to stay with a tiny baby, a choice a lot of mothers don't have but they chose their career instead. That's just fact.

How is it not about money if they want promotion?

How much time did your DH take off work after each of your DC’s were born?

On my first child I took 9 months off, on my second my husband took 11 months off, on my third I had my own business so could choose my hours and I had a childminder for half days after 8 months and on my last my husband took 7 months off. I work from home so I was here too.

@manifestthis what are you going to do if people who made different choices to you get the same outcomes as you in term of parenting? Say for example a woman who worked all her life had adult children who are living happily, well connected to her, living good productive lives, will you think differently then?

Personally I’m hoping to end up with 3 well adjusted adults who are as happy and living purposeful and interesting and engaged lives. I want to have a meaningful contribution to that in terms of teaching them things I have learned in life.

I’ve one out the other end now who in spite of ND and the challenges that brings is doing amazingly as an adult by the outcomes I hoped for her. She is happy, engaged, purposeful and living an interesting life. I’ll plod along with the other two hopeful for the same outcomes. Honestly you just do you. The input might be different but the outcomes are what we hope for.