Nurseries for 12 week-old babies - ok or not?

[weatherthestorm]

Inspired by the current boarding school thread ... Now that there is widespread awareness of 'boarding school syndrome', are we not, as a society, in danger of sleepwalking into raising a generation whose mental well-being is going to be impacted by even earlier separation into a form of institutional care? Will the next generation be defined by 'childcare syndrome', alongside and exacerbating the mental health epidemic that is already emerging through unlimited access to social media content? Will we look back in disbelief that we ever thought it was ok to put babies, as young as 12 weeks into long days in nurseries, where they spend most of their waking lives before they even have any concept of themselves as a whole, separate being? AIBU that we need to lose the taboo / discomfort around engaging with this important issue, before it's too late?

There's this persistent idea that daycare is a "rotating cast of caregivers" which really wasn't my experience. There were a few carers that my kids knew well, who had a good understanding of child development and safety.

This magical roster of aunts and uncles just doesn't exist in this day and age. My siblings were in full time work. My own mother was far too burnt out from being a sahm to provide any reliable grandchild care.

In YOUR mind it’s ok to put a near newborn in full time care to climb the corporate ladder instead of having the given 9 months maternity leave. For the vast majority of people that is not ok unless they have no other choice. It’s parenting in the loosest sense of the word when in fact you are doing very little parenting at all of a tiny baby because your career is more important.

And the father gets no judgement because…?

It can make or break a career. Key career advances often happen in your early 30s. If you miss that, it's very hard to have a do - over.

I'm very glad I put in those hard years when the kids were young. I now get to choose my hours, and get paid very well for it.

Ahh well as long as you have money now, and those SIX precious months with your small baby made such a huge difference to your key career advances…

There is so much stigma and judgement around this topic and it’s such a shame that as women all our choices are criticised, no matter what we do. The fact is that a lot of parents need to return to work earlier, statutory maternity pay is rubbish and not everyone has the luxury of a good occupational mat leave package / high salary / partner with a good income. The rigid idea that family members looking after a baby is better than them being in a nursery is so over generalising and simplistic; it really depends on the individual family members. The assumption that family will take better care of the child is often wrong; considering the amount of cyclical abuse in families and family members perhaps feeling burdened by unpaid childcare responsibilities. It surely needs to be a case by case basis. Nurseries are regulated and the staff are trained and experienced, the conveyor belt of staff is not something all nurseries experience at all. The demonisation of nurseries is so unhelpful and rooted in old fashioned ideas and privilege. Not everyone can afford to be a SAHM or have a nanny and not everyone wants these things!

There is also so much misinformation on MN from so-called attachment experts. I do work in this field. The most important part of developing secure attachment to a caregiver is the caregiver being attuned and responsive to the child, WHEN they are available. If a woman is suffering from severe postpartum psychosis or depression and needs to put her 12 week old into nursery for her health, that is the best decision that woman could make. It is best that women are able to attune to their child’s needs and be responsive, and if nursery provides some respite in order for them to be present when with their child then that is only a good thing. Of course there should be more mental health support for mothers too, and better statutory maternity pay and many other systemic factors but most people are trying their best in their specific circumstances.

My DCs nurseries both accept babies from 6 weeks old. I was surprised by this however we do not know the reasons why a mother might need childcare for a baby so young, and I try not to take a position of judgement as I have never been in that situation. However the idea that babies suffer long term harm from being looked after some of the time by people other than their parents is false, as long as the babies needs are met. It does indeed take a village to raise a child but reality does not reflect this for many people.

Indeed. When I was pregnant with my first, I read loads of articles based on psychological studies about the impact of childcare on babies. The vast majority were in agreement - the quality of attachment to the the main care giver (usually the mother) is the single most important denominator, alongside the quality of the childcare.

I was fortunate, in that I was in a decent(ish) job that meant i was able to save in order to bolster SMP, and i was in the public sector where enhanced maternity pay is good. I therefore took off 9 months, but had to return full time - partly because flexible working back then was not as good back then (they almost certainly would have refused part time hours) and partly because I didn't want my career progress to stagnate. I don't believe there is anything wrong with a woman ensuring she can be financially independent should the worst happen - in fact, it's incredibly sensible. Too often, I have seen women sacrifice their careers, only to find themselves in dire straits when their marriages/ partnerships fail. Then all the children remember is the struggles mum (usually) faced, the fact that there wasn't enough money and mum was constantly stressed out and didn't seem to enjoy their childhoods.

Once we had weighed up all the options, we actually chose a really amazing childminder who has remained with both our children - our ds until he went to secondary school, our dd (8) is still going. By the time our dd came along, I was in quite a senior position which afforded more flexibility and I dropped to 4 days a week. Childminders are often overlooked, for a variety of reasons, and don't suit every family. But when you find an excellent one, they're worth their weight in gold. The homely environment suits a lot of children, and they often get a chance to build a strong attachment to their childminder, as well as their parents - which psychologically speaking is really healthy for them. They get loads of one to one due to smaller group size and are able to have more quiet time if overwhelmed. Our cm is like more of an antie to our dc, and a friend to us. My ds (14) still drops in to see her and give her a hug on his way to/ from school.

The quality and affordability of childcare and maternity/ paternity leave and pay (across the board, not just for higher earners) is what we should be talking about. Not 'women furthering their careers at the expense of their children' which is merely another stick to beat women with (where are the men in this equation?) when motherhood is already fraught with judgement, shame and guilt.

So at what point did I get both? When they turned 1 or or 3 or 4? When they started school? Can you genuinely not see why it’s better for some people, overall as a family, to have both parents return to work when kids are smaller to facilitate more flexible working through the rest of their childhood? Or do you just have a bee in your bonnet about children going to nursery?

No issue with any child going to nursery as well you know. I do however have an issue with financially sound people deciding not to take maternity leave and putting tiny babies of 12 weeks into full time care to chase their careers. That’s what the thread is about.. read the title.

Ahh well as long as you have money now, and those SIX precious months with your small baby made such a huge difference to your key career advances…

Is there any need to be so nasty? Being a parent IS about planning for the future.
There's no need to be so disparaging to women who have chosen a different way to parent to what you would choose.

How do you know? Sure it’s not ok in your mind (largely as you don’t seem able to comprehend that the weighing up isn’t child or career but more what’s the way you can do what will be best long term). What makes you think someone is doing very little parenting of a baby if they go to nursery? From what I recall I was parenting 5pm-8am daily most weekdays plus all the time at the weekend plus holidays (we usually had 3 weeks a year). So that’s about 75% of the time even without considering that I or OH was also off with kids when they were poorly. At that age many babies still sleep a lot in the day and wake a lot at night. I actually probably spent a similar number of waking hours with them then as I do now when they are in bed sleeping 8-7 most nights and they go to various clubs 🤷🏼‍♀️

The thread asked for opinions on whether it is ok to put 12 week old babies into full time care. Read it again.

My thoughts exactly OP

What research is available suggests it’s optimal for under 2’s to be with a primary caregiver the majority of the time. So based on that it’s also actually not ideal to take the allowed maternity leave & then return to work but you don’t have an issue with that. You seem to be saying you have no issue with parents going back to work at 9 months but do at 3 or 5 or 6 months. It’s a truly bizarre stance and the way you are articulating it is hugely judgmental & unpleasant.

Number one.. in my experience of childcare very few parents pick up at 5pm and a lot drop off before 8.

Number 2 your maths is way off. If your child is in full time care 5 days a week, coming home for an hour or so an then going to bed the nursery is spending more time with them than you. Claiming that the time your child spends sleeping at night counts as time spent with them is ridiculous.

Thirdly we are taking about a 12 WEEK old baby who is gone from their parent all day, every day.

Staying with your 12 week old tiny baby when you have the choice to do until they are 9 months old is surely better than dumping them in a full time nursery setting so young. Surely you would want that time with them. They are do cery small. Huge difference in an almost newborn and a baby of 9 months.
I feel so sorry for the people on the thread who gad no choice but to do this, they all said how horrible it was for them. Then there are those who think 6 months will hinder their career path….

The thread asked for opinions on whether it is ok to put 12 week old babies into full time care. Read it again.

But there's no need to be nasty though is there? Just because people don't agree with you.

In my experience of childcare the nursery we used opened at 8 and closed at 6 and most parents picked up early. My friends used a range of nurseries and had a similar experience. Many people actually picked up early as had younger siblings in nursery for school hours (still full time days). Clearly experiences differ.

I recall the nights being the hardest bit of having a small baby to be honest. They were up every few hours for a feed/cuddle, needed nappy changes etc. I’m very comfortable to say I was spending time with them and meeting important needs and bonding with them at night.

So again at what point is it not an issue. If 9 months then why?

How am I being nasty? People are giving their opinion as to why they think it’s ok and I am giving my opinion on why I think it absolutely isn’t when you have the choice and money not to do so.

You actually are not giving your opinion on why. You are just repeatedly stating it’s wrong/awful. You are saying other women posting about their experience are being ridiculous to suggest they were also parenting while their kids were in childcare and similar. You clearly have some very strong opinions on this but from your responses they are based on nothing more substantial than your feeling it’s wrong to put a younger baby in a nursery.

You sounds like I wasn't a parent in that time. I didn't hand my baby over and disappear. I'm not even talking about full time work. I'm talking about a professional minding my baby for a few hours per week.

And it was a make or break moment for my career. I wouldn't be in this field if I'd delayed six months. I would still be an employee, having to beg for time off when I wanted it.

My mother gave up her career to look after kids. My parents split when I was about to start secondary school. I lived in poverty until I left home. It was a story I was keen to avoid.

I have worked all my children’s lives except for ML and I think that there is plenty of evidence to suggest infants are better off with a primary care giver just like they are better off being breast fed for example.

But that doesn’t mean that is what parents should do, life is long and complex and what is better for an infant isn’t better for older children. For example a lot of my DD’s friends had no idea about the concept of a career trajectory they could consider when looking at university because their mothers did not have careers whereas DD actually commented on how she noticed I was a role model for her in that regard. Nothing is perfect. I’m far from perfect but on balance my children have had decent enough parenting that much better than my own childhood or my DHs childhood where we both had SAHM’s but in abusive households. My mother played her own role in what was happening in my childhood home, she was not remotely emotionally engaged, dismissive, she could be very cold, cruel and bullying herself.

If you decide to have a baby and you work and you decide that you would rather go to work when your baby is 12 weeks old rather than spend your given maternity time with them because your career in those 6 months is more important to you than spending time with this new little being in your life, your priorities are skewed. You have the means and the money to stay with your child longer but you decide no..
Of course your new baby is better off at home with you for 9 months than put into care at 12 weeks. You cannot dispute that.

Question. Will a 12 week old baby fare better to be at home with a parent for the first 9 months of their life or shipped off at 3 months to full time care.
in your opinion of course.

It’s not a few hours a week though is it? It’s all day every day, 5 days a week…. As a tiny baby.