To highlight this case of voyeurism in what appears to have been a unisex toilet on private premises?

[BadSkiingMum]

I came across this case of a voyeur who placed phone cameras under the sink in a toilet. Note that this did not even make BBC news - this is on a local London website.

Women secretly recorded by south east London voyeur | This Is Local London

This was a toilet in a hairdresser, so not open to passers by and with the need to make a booking to enter the premises. So it would seem to be a low-risk environment. But unfortunately this did not prevent an employee from committing a crime. While the article is not clear that the toilet was unisex, presumably the offender was able to enter the toilet and place the phones inside because he was using it himself and was therefore unlikely to be challenged.

In my opinion this case suggests that unisex toilets, even those which are in what we could consider to be a relatively 'safe' environment, present greater risk than toilets separated by sex.

The 'minority of males' is the minority of males who wish to use women's spaces. Why assume this means transwomen?

Exactly, why argue if you don’t care?

I guess some people are more
clued up on crime stats, the concept of basic safeguarding and care that some women may feel they have to start self excluding, for all the reasons already given on this board. I think single sex spaces are absolutely necessary to keep so I’ll keep harping on about it. You don’t have to stick around, you’ve said you only care about your own agency. What’s more to be said on your part?

I didn’t take ‘minority of males’ to mean trans women at all. I understood it to mean men who have questionable intentions surrounding gaining access to women only spaces. I.e. predatory men. That’s certainly what I have been basing my arguments on.

I just don't tend to post on topics that other people are passionate about, but that I don't care about.

That's quite a leap.

it is a minority of males who want unisex facilities. My husband and son don't want them either.

What's that got to do with trans people?

And where in that quote did I mention trans woman?

We don’t. Some of us actually don’t. There are women, like you’ve seen, who actually don’t share those strong beliefs and don’t need representation on the matter. We’re okay with trying to live our lives without all of it.

Most women disagree with you, why should your minority view trump theirs exactly?

It’s not clearly ‘trans women’. The minority of males means the minority of males with nefarious means who will push boundaries.

It’s funny that you thought ‘trans women’ when reading that though. I didn’t.

Well said.

If some women are fine and happy to share spaces with men, that's great for them. That doesn't mean that they get to unilaterally decide all other women must put up with it, though.

My partner doesn't particularly want to be pissing in a loo next to potentially little girls either, if it could be avoided. Neither would I want him to. He is not trans.

It certainly doesn't mean they get to tell us we should shut up and stop talking about it, not complain, stop making a fuss.

Women willnae wheesht, I'm afraid. We are long past that point.

People don’t want facts, I’m afraid. They’re just not interested… as they keep telling us.

I find it hilarious they’re all still on here talking about it when apparently they care so little. Don’t want to engage? Then move on and let us talk about this topic.

The hypocrisy is astounding. We were talking about something that is very much linked to the OP. They have actually derailed and ‘shut down the conversation’ by arguing against us arguing.
Who is trying to silence whom?

Me neither. Countless times I’ve read a thread, realised what it’s about and thought “I really don’t have an opinion on this” and moved on to something else.

It’s the ‘I don’t care!’ but still engaging on and on trying to diminish concerns. If I don’t care or have concerns about something and I’m convinced nothing will change my mind I just ignore and move on.

Exactly. Its "I don't care, but stop saying this is about women's rights!"

It is about women's rights and I'm going to keep saying it. However tedious other posters find it. Hope that's clear.

The other thing that I can’t wrap my head around is, if one group don’t care either way if they have access to women only spaces, and one group very much want to retain women only spaces, then surely you appease the latter and everyone is happy?? First group carry on not giving a shiny shit either way, second group gets what they need.

one group very much want to retain women only spaces

The vastly bigger group.

Yeah, what is it about women wanting to retain sex based spaces that really bothers other women? I don't get it, if it doesn't affect those women, as they say, who cares.

A bedtime story as evening approaches.

A girl at school was bullied. She was really upset, and wanted the school to take steps to make on-site bullying more difficult. She went to two other children for help. These children were lucky enough to have had no experience of bullying at all.

The first child told the anxious girl that she simply couldn't understand why she was upset by the bullying, as she, herself, had never experienced it. She pointed out that any measures the school could take to reduce bullying would never prevent it entirely, and were therefore not really worth taking. In fact, she concluded, it was hard to understand why the girl was so focussed on this issue - why not join her own campaign to minimise rubbish on campus instead?

Intensely distressed, the little girl went to the second child for help.

This second child told the anxious girl that although she, herself, had never experienced bullying, she could imagine how upsetting it must be to the girl in question. She agreed that it was only logical that any measures the school could take to reduce bullying would be worth it, even if they could never guarantee total safety. In fact, she concluded, as she herself was fortunate enough not to be affected by bullying, she was at something of an advantage, and would support this more vulnerable student in something that mattered so deeply to her.

I mean. I hope you enjoyed that chat about how right you are, with yourselves.

To be honest, if we’re gonna start using abbreviations and talking about wheesting, I’m gonna put my feminist bingo chart away and get on with living. Think I’ve got a decent measure of the conversation available.

That’s not because my opinion has in any way changed, I wouldn’t rush to claim that victory, it’s just genuinely pointless speaking to a group of women who speak in feminist code and refuse to see any other point but their own.

There is however a perfectly good subsection for women’s issues, if you’d like to carry on vehemently agreeing with each other!

What was it we were saying about echo chambers?

It makes sense only if some women genuinely prefer mixed sex spaces. But I can't grasp what the positives/advantages are, and especially not any that would.outweigh traumatising some women and excluding many others for various reasons.

What are the plusses of mixed sex spaces for women?

'Wheeshting' is Scottish. It means "be quiet'.

I don’t know why I need anything to be a plus, or a benefit. Somethings aren’t for my benefit, and that is absolutely okay.

I know, it’s a very commonly used phrase in certain groups, a very prominent X hashtag. You see my point.

Who does mixed sex spaces benefit?

If it's pointless and you don't care (I'm not sure if you care or not, you haven't been very clear on that), why would it matter where women post and what women's issues they want to talk about?

There's plenty of topics (quite a few Christmas ones I'm not interested in) in AIBU. Should I pop over there, despite being not interested, to tell them repeatedly I'm not interested because it doesn't affect me personally despite others saying it affects them and giving me example as to why, and tell them dictate to discuss this on the Christmas board, as it's pointless and I.... don't care.

Lovely evening story @Catiette