Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

You have very limited control here.

He doesn't live with you.

The person he does live with has consistently rejected what you have to say and ignored it.

Honestly there's basically nothing you can do at this stage.

He clearly won't listen to either you or your DM, there's no relationship left there for you to pull on.

Accept that things are the way they are. Don't give him any money.

I don't know but you've listed a lot of negative things there.

For your own sanity perhaps you might want to think of anything positive you have to say about him. Any nice times that you've had?

It sounds like you and your husband have worked full time all his life. I guess perhaps he has felt sometimes you are never there for him. This could explain things but of course not excuse them. He sounds like a kid who needs showing the right way.

I admit I'm probably not much help but have a think about it.

You/your DM need to stop enabling him.

He is an adult at 18. Sadly, consequences will happen because he is breaking the law.

If you can't support him/find support for his addictions ( is he addicted or trading on others addiction?).

Only he can decide to accept support. Services won’t pander to him, they have enough genuine people that do want to be supported.

If he doesn't want to change, you need to lower your contact sadly, and live your life for you and your family. Let him get on with his.

I really feel for you. I know you will want to save him, you can't, only he can do that.

Doesn't seem like you're placing any responsibility at your own door. I feel sorry for your mum.

For starters you call the police - repeatedly.

If he steals stuff, call the police. Drugs? Call the police? Violence of any sort? Call the police. Have EVERYTHING he has done logged.

He is clearly an addict and your DM has been enabling this, but then you can't blame her, as you put a huge amount of responsibility on her and she took the easy option. You made some exceptionally poor parenting choices.

The only way forward here is for him to take responsibility for his actions which means being arrested and charged for all his criminal activity. You can then hope that due to his age he will be put into some sort of drug rehabilitation program, where you can then offer support and show him you care.

If you don't do this then the cycle of drugs and theft will continue.

A friend of my DH married a woman with a child like your DS, and calling the police nearly broke their marriage but it did get the boy the help he needed, albeit with a criminal record too. It was the best decision. He is no angel 10 years on but a much better person than he was.

We went through a very difficult stage with DS at 17/18. He was at times violent, stole from us and others and was arrested for shoplifting and drunk driving- six months after he had passed his test. We tried getting help from SS- not much came I am afraid. They were very keen to collect information and record data, but did very little to actually help. We paid for private talking therapy so that he could try dealing with the issues he had. From our perspective these appeared minor- he did not like being compared to his elder brother and did not feel he had a place in the world, but clearly to him they were much bigger. Ultimately we supported him, but we were also clear that he needed to step up and manage his own life. It took time, with significant setbacks, but he has now turned into a very nice young man and we are proud of him. Do not lose faith OP.

My heart goes out to u OP and don't beat yourself up about both parents working FT; most of my friends and their partners worked FT too, it's not that unusual.
Sadly, your story has striking similarities to mine . I will spare you the details but in hindsight, I wish I had detached earlier on. Looking back I was enabling him but I felt disempowered to do anything (as crazy as that seems).
Much further down the line, I have had experience of prison/child protection services etc etc. All a total nightmare.
As you can see, I have no answers but urge you to seek support from youth support services (online or whatever). Sharing the heartache and powerlessness

can lessen the heartache. Has your son engaged with addiction services?
Sending you a handhold

Wonderful outcome for which I am truly pleased

'exceptionally poor parenting choices' ? Harsh and unfair
Let's hope you never find yourself in OP's position

That sounds incredibly hard op. I'm wondering if anything happened around the age he started to change or in his younger years that would have been traumatic for him? Or if there is undiagnosed SEN? Maybe exploitation from other older groups?

Your mum sounds like she's undermined your parenting every step of the way (likely with good intentions of trying to 'reach' him) but it sounds like she's been wildly naieve.

The problem you have now is that 18 you need his consent for any intervention you might be able to put in place. He needs to want to change now.

I think you need to step back actually. I'd make it clear to him that you love him and that if he decides he wants to live a healthier happier life you'll be there to support him with that but you're done trying to nag him (probably how he interprets it) into doing it.

I'd recommend trying to link him in with supported accommodation for homeless young people who would struggle to manage a tenancy. Because he will not manage any flat he's given/rents and being on the street is not a good path for anyone. But it'll need to be agreed with him op. He needs to buy in now otherwise he just won't do it and you can't make him.

Self care and clear boundaries are the only thing you can really work on now unfortunately.

Woah!
We have worked full time since my children were six months old, neither of them are like OP's son. In fact they both have a very strong work ethic and got their first part time job at 13 years old.
OP, I hate to say it but the time to have cracked his behaviour was at 12 years old when he started down this path. If your mother wasn't prepared to do as you asked then she should have been out of the picture (especially giving him money for drugs! Were social services aware?).
Hindsight is a brilliant thing, I think all you can do now is protect your daughter from him and make sure he had no access to your possessions. Hopefully he will come out of the other side one day.

Harsh perhaps, but unfair in what way? Are you saying the OP made the right parenting choices?

Refusing help from social services when the boy was younger? Giving parenting responsibility over to the DM even though quite clearly DM couldn't cope, and the OP clearly disagreeing with the DM's parenting methods, then complaining about DM's parenting methods?

I have already made career/financial sacrifices to support my struggling child.

The OP cannot change the past but needs to make sure they address mistakes in the past to make sure they make the right decisions moving forward.

Op you don't mention the police in your post. Was he not arrested for assault when he pushed you down the stairs?

Your mum needs to get him out of the house, he unfortunately won't change while he has somewhere to go and someone to take money off and she will be the one to suffer. He needs to want to change and you can't make him. He's almost an adult and you won't be able to make him do anything, it's time to help keep your mum safe and the rest of your family and let him find his own way.

Honestly I don't think there was anything uncommon in his childhood.

He's a very clever boy, he used to win awards at primary school especially for maths and in Primary 7 he won 3 awards for sport. He played football 3 times per week, sometimes more and we encouraged this as he had a talent. Travelled the length and breadth of the country and once overseas for a tournament.
We live in an average house, we have average jobs, we went on average holidays sometimes in the UK and sometimes abroad (not abroad every year)
We went on days out, he had a lovely group of friends who'd come round the house and he would go to theirs.

Honestly there is nothing that screams he's had a terrible upbringing.

He is the apple of both his grandparents eyes, first grand child but for some reason unknown to me my mum just couldn't see when he was doing wrong. She would openly make excuses for him, usually "that's what kids do" - she says herself she didn't want to see him for what he really is.

Anyway, it's done - she's put him out and as far as I know she's finished with him so time will tell

@MigGril - No he wasn't arrested - I didn't call the police because things were already tense between us

Nobody wants to see the wrong in their child, no matter how hard it is but if it were to happen again I'd call the police without a second thought

Some children cope with parents working full-time much better than others. That's not bashing full-time working parents, some parents have no choice. Your son is clearly a very unhappy young man. It maybe that he feels he's been neglected and that his sister, being younger, has been favoured. Very often an adult would consider an issue minor but to a child it isn't, in their eyes it's a significant problem. No, you can't change the past. Unfortunately, now your son is 18, you no longer have any say in his life. You can't stop his life from spiraling, only he can. Your Mum may have enabled a lot of his behaviour, but she's now at the end of her tether. You can't expect her to continue to allow your son to live with her. Equally, as you have a younger daughter, it's not safe for her, to allow your son to come home either. Can SS advise you, how you can help? Or could Shelter help? You don't want your son on the street, but he's not in the position to hold down a tenancy and doesn't have regular work.

I don’t know the way forward with this but I don’t think you can blame your mum - it was your child to parent and you weren’t there to do it. You can’t expect her to enforce rules that you didn’t/couldn’t/weren’t there to enforce yourself.

Lying, stealing, substance misuse, nasty behaviour towards family members, model child for most of primary then went off the rails at 10 or 11, like a different child when school was closed?

I would say these are classic signs of a child who was sexually abused just pre-puberty, possibly by someone connected with school or sports, and that at some level he both regarded family as a safe space but also that you let him down by not protecting him from it (not that you knew obviously).

It's hard to know how you can help now except to make it clear that if he wants to talk about his difficulties you're listening, and foot the bill for therapy if possible. But his behaviour sounds hard to deal with, so you should look after yourself too and have firm boundaries around how he can behave towards you (e.g. call a halt to conversation if it becomes abusive, but say you'll continue tomorrow).

To be clear, I'm not a professional in this field but I've seen this kind of thing before.

I find all the talk of how you working FT damaged him somehow absolutely baffling btw.

I'd hand him over to social services unless you want an abusive drug dealer in the house with your daughter.

I'd be ringing the police on the non emergency number and talking to them for some advise, they'll be able to get the most appropriate police officer to give you a call back there is normally someone specialising in County Lines. Mention County Lines and that he has Cuckooed his GM home but is being kicked out. Talk to them about how young he was when he got involved and they hopefully be able to offer some support for him as he is / was a vulnerable victim when it all started.

He may have additional needs that have gone undiagnosed. That plus massively inconsistent parenting thanks to your mother getting involved have helped him get into this situation. Unfortunately only he can get himself out of it. The best thing your mother can do is finally stick to some boundaries and not let him back or give him money when he comes back to talk her around - he will come back.

It’s difficult to parent when they have someone to run to at the first hint of boundaries or consequences. When that person will give them money and let them do whatever they want and make excuses for them and when SS are sending them back to that person rather than home, the parents don’t stand a chance.

When I tell you he has had ample offer of support I am not exaggerating. DH, me, my DM and PIL all engaged with social services, all keen to get him and us help and support. He was offered counselling and refused. We offered to pay private, he refused.
His friends mums also became a constant in his life offering to support him.
His teachers tried their very best.

He cannot and will not be told.

I remember the social worker telling us there is only so much they can do but if the young person won't co-operate then their hands are tied. Nobody could force him.

He is known to the police because when he ran away they'd bring him home, they also searched our house for drugs, when he accused me of assaulting him the police were also involved.

I can understand that, you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped or won't open up.

I have been back and forward on the phone to DM all day and she hasn't told me the full story. Bits and pieces have come out as the day has went on including him being violent to her in her own home this afternoon as well as verbally abusive and she has given him a substantial amount of money over the past two weeks to pay off drug debts.
She is refusing to contact the police - I have pleaded with her to do so but she won't do it. She just wants him gone.

I am exhausted and can't see light at the end of the tunnel

@thetroublewithteens You list a lot of superficial things: your jobs, house, holidays, hobbies awards etc. But there's no mention of the emotional landscape of the home him growing up. At some point you lost the connection to your own child. Can you pinpoint when? When did you stop being able to tune in?
Because he is not bad. He obviously feels you werent there for him, and that's got nothing to do with working full-time.

What could you do now? Not much. Remind him you care. And you love him. And that he can come back to you when he's ready and you wont judge. (Obviously you need to state that any violence is met with police)