Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

I think this definition is really good:

“Emotional Neglect is a parent’s failure to respond enough to a child’s emotional needs.
Emotional Neglect is, in some ways, the opposite of mistreatment and abuse. Whereas mistreatment and abuse are parental acts, Emotional Neglect is a parent’s failure to act. It’s a failure to notice, attend to, or respond appropriately to a child’s feelings. Because it’s an act of omission, it’s not visible, noticeable or memorable. Emotional Neglect is the white space in the family picture; the background rather than the foreground. It is insidious and overlooked while it does its silent damage to people’s lives”

It’s from Dr Jonice Webb’s website, she specialises in emotional neglect. Emotional neglect usually runs in families for generations with no one knowing it because it’s something that isn’t happening as opposed to something that is overtly happening. She also says this

“It is entirely possible for a parent who loves and wants the best for his child to emotionally neglect her. The truth is, to love your child is a very different thing from being in tune with your child. For healthy development, loving a child just isn’t enough. For a parent to be in tune with his child, he must be a person who is aware of and understands emotions in general. He must be observant so that he can see what his child can and can’t do as he develops. And he must be willing and able to put in the effort and energy required to truly know his child. A well-meaning parent who lacks in any one of these areas is at risk of emotionally failing his child.”

My parents provided for me physically but emotionally they just weren’t there. They didn’t ask how I was, didn’t enquire about how I was seeing and experiencing the world, didn’t explain emotions or emotional regulation to me etc. They had no real interest in knowing me or my inner world. I experienced my struggles all alone. Ofc for my situation there was overt abuse happening too but I’m trying to just explain the emotional neglect.

What is ‘reaping’ what you sowed when you have a grandson move in as the parents can’t cope and SS demand it? Doesn’t sound like she engineered that one bit and frankly may not have wanted it and felt obliged.

He proceeds to emotionally, physically and financially abuse her and is berated for not parenting properly. Really?? What boundaries should she - an older widow on her own - have put in place that apparently 2 parents, school, SS and the police have been unable. Do tell.

I’m genuinely sympathetic to OP but any blame on the GM is VERY much misplaced.

OP, I am sorry you are going through this. I have no advice, I just wanted to offer solidarity. Please know that whatever happens from this point is his decision, you and your husband have done all you can. Don’t tarnish your dd’s upbringing with guilt over the road your son chose.

Thanks everyone

I imagine by this definition most of us are failing. "Enough" is a highly subjective concept, likely to be defined differently by all parties in any given situation. And if love and care is inadequate unless you are also in tune with your child, I would say "Doctor Jonice Webb" is deliberately setting us all up to fail, probably because there's profit in it for her.

Why not at least own it and just say you think OP has done a shit job?

I haven’t read the full thread.

This child has clearly been dragged into county lines dealing. He cannot just stop dealing! You may be aware of the threats to life or to harm your family if you even dare to consider it.

There are charities out there who can give you support and advice - probably more use than the police and SS.

The people who do this to children really are scum.

Im sorry this has happened to you and your family.

There must be a way out and that’s how the charities can advise and guide you on how to navigate the situation safely

It is better if SS become involved in your sons care as then they will place him somewhere safe.

It might seem all hope is lost, and a sense of hopelessness has set in, but he is 17 so will be sent to the youth court. There everything will be done to help him turn this around.

3/4 years ago you should have had county lines support, and you may have been advised to move house, out of the area. The window of intervention was missed, he was passed to your DM and things have escalated, and seemingly are now out of control.

But not all is lost.

YC are experienced with children like your son, and he is still a child.

I imagine your son is behaving violently and lashing out because he is scared, he is well over his head and he is out of his depth. Find your empathy for his plight op and keep the communication lines open to him.

He might finally get the support he needs now. The dealers will melt into the background, and take a step back once he is arrested, there will be space for change. An arrest won’t ruin his life, but might be the wake up call this young lad needs.

Your son is trying to survive.

He has been groomed and sucked in to a very dangerous position. This is not his fault, he was 12 years old. No amount of counselling or school support was going to be enough. This is serious stuff, and I would research every charity offering guidance, you can be supported to support him.

Stop blaming him. Stop blaming yourself. The dealers saw an opportunity in your son, unless you work in this area how would you have seen the signs? It is one of the most challenging and dangerous situations to be in.

Tell him you know this is not his fault, he is a good person fallen into the wrong hands. Keep loving him, keep the door wide open.

It might feel hopeless now but it is darkest before dawn, and I have seen far worse scenarios come good in these situations - especially those from loving homes. Good luck op. Keep us updated, there will be others going through the same thing as you. You are not alone.

contact:

https://www.catch-22.org.uk/resources/catch22-to-provide-support-for-victims-of-county-lines-exploitation/

@Savingthehedgehogs this is the most helpful and reasonable post I’ve seen on here for OP. I feel she’s had so many replies trying to ‘understand’ how she could have let this happen which is so grossly unfair and naive. This is not a failure of OP. She’s as much a victim in all this. I love the advice to stop trying to find the blame in this situation. Best of luck OP. Your family are in a terrible situation at the moment and hopefully with support will get better over time.

@thetroublewithteens - do you think your DS could have been a victim of abuse and hasn’t told anyone? Just trying to work out why a well behaved kid would suddenly switch and turn to drugs. He seems very very angry.

Not really sure what to say to this tbh. It’s not like she made up the concept of emotional neglect- it’s very widely known about and yes, unfortunately common. That doesn’t mean it’s impossible to learn or become aware of how to be in tune with yourself and by extension your children/other people in your life.

I spent years in therapy and doing research to break the cycle of neglect and abuse so I don’t pass this down to my kids. Being defensive about it all is pointless. That kind of reaction is what I expect from people like my parents- totally uninterested in challenging themselves, learning or admitting that perhaps they were wrong about things.

Children don't just suddenly 'change', unless there's a reason for that behavioural shift - particularly if op has another, pretty well adjusted child.

My first thoughts when I read this were:

• Trauma of some kind aged 12 (which the op has discounted)
• Grooming into county lines activity
• Undiagnosed SEN (no response to rewards/ consequences, triggered by transition to secondary school, multiple examples of high anxiety and self medication).

Essentially though, whichever one it is, it all boils down the fact that support was neither sought nor provided early enough on the path to self destruction. Sadly, it may now have gone too far and I'm desperately sorry for you, op. I'm not sure what the answer is. Counselling, referral for mental health support if he'll engage with anything/ acknowledge there are serious issues.

Yes, me too, so if you want to take the moral high ground you're going to need to be prepared to share it. Not quite being "in tune with your child" is not the same as abuse and neglect and you do a disservice to everyone struggling either with their past or with their parenting when you pretend that it is.

You were trying to score points by making the OP feel worse than she already does about the terrible difficulties their family is going through.

Totally agree with this. Suspect this poster is one of those 'cycle breakers' so often seen on social media, confidently asserting that their parenting is better than their parents'. Time will tell.

It's victim-blaming.

OP, I am so sorry you and your family are in this situation. It sounds like your son has really been led astray by bad influences. I very much hope he will be able to turn his life around. You are right to try and protect your mum and others in your family.

We can torment ourselves as a family with the wondering why it's came out like this and taking advice from strangers on the internet about what shit parents we are.

To all of you who have been successful in your parenting journey, I congratulate you. I hope all of your future generations flourish and that you never ever experience what we have as a family because believe me when I tell you, this hits hard. You do not know what's around the corner.

To any of you who's children are still small or young, I wish you luck because it's a scary world out there for kids.

All the love, patience, money and guidance in the world and if someone wants to make a poor choice then they will

You cannot help someone who won't be truthful about a situation - infact we can't even find him. Don't think we haven't tried because we have.

The fact police know he has a mobile phone, you'd think they could just trace it and locate him but they won't do it. We asked.

Our beautiful, kind and funny son is an addict, dealing drugs with a huge debt and on the run from the police at the grand age of 17.

We drove to the dealers house last night, for a split second it crossed my mind that we could have a civil conversation with this person, pay the money or even over the odds and find DS and get him to some sort of crisis centre or rehab or something. I don't know what the answer is but we know we need to find him first of all. Get eyes on him and see if we can keep hold of him long enough to have a conversation.

He has message DM and messaged DH but currently ignoring me so at least we know he is alive for now.

What an awful situation. This is a huge fear of mine, and to all the posters piling on OP, I hope you never find yourself in this situation. It's so easy to see how a few bad decisions by our young people can escalate into this, regardless their upbringing. I really hope things work out in the end for you and the posters going through similar things, you all have my utmost sympathies.

Unfortunately, you can't do anything. He's an adult. You can't control him. You can't stop your mum enabling him either. In a few weeks he'll be 18 and homeless. This is a fuck about and find out moment. He needs to sort his own shit out. I wouldn't let him back in your home. I'd get security cameras to secure your home and suggest your mum does the same. I imagine things will get worse for him before they get better. He needs to actually experience some consequences and that can go two ways. Hell either think fuck I need to sort my shit out or that wasn't that bad and continue in the same vain.

You can show love via touch: When he was little did you hold him tightly every single day and tell him you loved him? Did you lay on the couch cuddled up with him regularly with the occasional fun tight squish?
You can show love via words: Did you ask him, do you know you are loved? Did you ask him how he is feeling? Did you really check in deeply with him regulalry? Did you praise him not for achievements in maths or football, but for his kindness to others, his curiosity about the world etc. Was telling him you loved him and every single day of his life thing.
You can show love via quality time: Did you play his favourite console games with him? Did you watch his favourite TV show with him from the beginning together once he'd raised it as being awesome to show interest and value in his likes. Netflix came out 10 years ago so this would have been possible. Did you read his favourite books to discuss with him?
You can show love by doing tasks for him (even if he can do it himself): "Let me put my lovely sons jacket on even though your a capable boy" and zip him up with a cuddle and playful squish. "Ive brought you some snacks whilst your gaming with your friends, love you", "I'll help you tidy your room and you can pick the music, Id love to know what your into"
You can show love via gift giving: Did you pick up some favourite treats for him, did you spontaneously gift him a small gift like some football stickers, or something to do with gaming, i mean fortnite was out 7 years ago, did you ever just pop in and say hey let me buy you a 1000 vbucks and you can treat yourself to a new skin etc. Small token gifts that were meaningful to him but not outlandish and showed that you were in tune with his interests.

I think this is a bit unfair. My own parents didn't really do any of the things you listed. They were physically relatively undemonstrative and didn't say "I love you" or any of that. They were also busy working hard and we didn't have a lot of money.
I still felt loved, because they loved me.

Plus you've made some big assumptions that the OP didn't parent more as you suggest. She's dealing with some huge issues that she's trying to convey here, the salient points aren't going to be listing her exact parenting techniques from ten years ago.

@thetroublewithteens I hope you can ignore the posters piling on - they should feel ashamed of themselves and should educate themselves about County Lines - your son is a victim, and you and your DM and your family are victims. @Savingthehedgehogs nailed it

I hope you are looking after yourself as best you can, I can imagine you are besides yourself with worry.

It sounds like you have all done all you can.
He is old enough and sounds a lot more capable then you maybe realise to look after himself.
I also think he won't change anytime soon . He may pretend too just to get back into a position that gives him access to money/house and so on.
You all need to stop funding his lifestyle.
The physical abuse obviously shows he doesn't really care about how you all feel.
And maybe that will change as he gets older. But probably won't for years. And until he wants to change he won't engage with rehab or any places like that.
Maybe him living independently without anyhelp from you all will help him grow up a bit .

Utter nonsense. Childcare should be in lockstep with parents. We're not talking extra helpings of pudding here.

You expect an elderly woman to enforce rules with a wayward teenage boy that his parents, the police and social services haven’t managed to implement?? “Utter nonsense” as you would say.

OP this is just a message of support. I'm so sorry about all this. You and your husband and mother must be feeling desperate.

But, as I read it,the mother wasn't 'childcare' , the boy was living with her.She was in loco parents, and in which case she should parent him.has she sees fit! And to be fair the op's style of parenting wasn't getting any better results.
I think your ds has always been insulated from the natural consequences of his actions.Leavr him to fell them,hit rock bottom.
As they say ' experience is a harsh teacher , but by God you'll learn'

Absolutely this ^^

Do you think this could have all started because of his football? You say he played at a reasonable standard etc, did something happen to make him stop playing? was he told he wasn't good enough? I appreciate a massively extreme reaction but perhaps this started off the downward spiral...?