Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

Let me be clear - DM has enabled DS his entire life right up until now and do you know what she is still making excuses for him and I am not confident that money won't be getting to him.

Show me a child who's going to accept no over yes given the choice... none - not one.

Whenever we said no, regardless of how big or how small, she said yes and DS has never known any different so naturally he is in the habit of getting what he wants from DM no questions asked and us, the parents, don't need to know unless we find out by accident that he had a fizzy juice, or he had an extra sweetie or he was bought a toy for grans, except over the years it's went beyond that and when he's had a consequence at home for behaviour he's known that won't follow on at DMs. We believed she was onboard with us so yes, we did accept her offer of childcare and we did allow her to care for him and we did allow them to spend time together because she is his grandparent.

By the time we realised the severity of it, the damage was already done.

As he has grown, he has been able to take himself to DMs house when he was out with friends or skipping school. DM does not stay very far from us at all. 5 minute walk.

What were we supposed to do? Lock him in the house at all times just incase he went to DMs house? There was a period of life where DH and me took turns to physically sit in the school for parts of the day to stop him skipping class.

This is a child who told the social work wild accusations against us and the very first time social work sent him to DMs whilst we were investigated he's thought "bingo" - this works so it continued until we physically showed social work the events of the week, the consequences we had put in place (i.e not allowing him out or removing the phone) and and the proof he had been seen out and about. Monday to Thursday he'd be at home with us and the accusations would come on a Friday which they sent him to DMs where he was allowed out

We co-operated and accepted the help offered from social work after those first accusations, we were not under child protection. We attended every school meeting, every team around the child meeting, every police intervention. We were involved and present at all times whilst trying to be a parent to DD and continue to work because we had to.

Social work themselves told DM that it must stop, she is not his parent and she cannot go against us because he was playing us off against one another and she took not an ounce of notice.

Social work wouldn't put him into a care unit because there was an alternative place for him to go.

DM has treated DS like a friend and confident, he has been allowed access to areas of her life that are not appropriate including full visibility of her bank accounts which has enabled him to run free with her money and she is still making excuses for him, still covering for him and still lying about how serious this is - he has had £5000 and counting since August, all freely transferred from her accounts to various people and she pretends she doesn't know. Who doesn't know £5k is missing?

DS can freely tell us who is getting what in DM will and it's transpired everything is being left to him and DM has completely written me out. Her friend is taking her this week to get the will amended

DS is in possession of DMs mobile phone, a newish Iphone and DM is at home with a phone that looks like it's from the early 00's - because she has allowed him her phone all his life so why wouldn't he not be allowed her new phone now?

Ironically, police have now put a social work referral in for DM because they have concerns over her and guess what - she is telling them she is fine.

Up until the age of 15 DS lived at home with us until he ran away one night to the girlfriends and DM collected him, took him to hers and brought him here the following morning to talk things over. She didn't bring him here because his temper was out of control and we had DD

The following morning DS made it clear he would not be staying at home with us anymore because we are shit parents and he would be living with the girlfriend.

We were not going to allow that and DM said he could live with her, said it whilst he was sat there and we didn't just say "oh great thanks very much" we did not want it but with DM allowing it and him wanting it - what chance did we have? So there it was - he had finally got what he wanted to live with DM in her house, where there are no rules, boundaries, consequences and freedom and cash is in abundance and from there on it has spiralled out of control

DM has been blinded by love for her first grandchild and wanted to give him the world round and as he has grown he has taken the absolute piss right out of her to the point it's an abusive relationship but she would not listen to anyone, she didn't and still doesn't want to see that's what this is and I keep saying to her "if a partner had done this to you would you allow it" -

He played us off against one another, making sure she was isolated from us because if we could get her to see what was really happening then it was all over for him

He's messaged her and said "I'll sort myself out for you gran" and she believes him, she believes he will change and through time they will "repair the relationship" - I mean really

OP I haven’t read all the responses but I’ve read all your updates. Sounds like your DS would have been a handful even without your DM’s influence. As much as we want to believe that how someone turns out is purely down to parenting, peers have a huge influence from early teens and it’s just luck as to who they interact with. Drug use from a young age can also have a big impact on personality. Other than moving areas and completely turning your lives upside down 7 years ago, there’s probably not much more you could have realistically done to change things.
All you can really do is hold your own boundaries with your son and wait for him to grow up. I’d be more worried about your DM allowing him back in as it seems she doesn’t want to believe who he has become.
I don’t have any advice but I do have a sibling who completely went off the rails at the same age due to the people he was mixing with. He eventually sorted himself out and got away from that life but it took the birth of his own son and then starting his own business.
I hope things work out for you in the long run.

, she shouldn't have gone against your wishes. But you cannot put all the blame on her. He new to push those boundaries. He sounds like he would have turned out the way he has no matter what.
She just gave him access to everything he needed to do it without having to live with you. He has used her .
But yes she should take responsibility for not becoming a team with you and dealing with his problems sooner .
He is essentially an adult now. He can only sort himself out at this point

Why on earth are you coming on here trying to defend yourself and ignoring the posters who are advising you to contact county lines charities?!

I just don’t get these types of posts where folk claim they need help and advice yet spend all their time ignoring the advice!!!!

Please contact a charity or a specialist police unit! Anything aside from responding to fools on here claiming you have neglected your son or worse!

No point looking into why it happened (thanks armchair Psychologists)

Start looking into how you can help to stop it!!!!!

Take advice from those with experience who have been in this situation!!

And your mother is clearly a bit bonkers but frankly there’s not much you can do about that!!!

She might need a panic alarm soon when he realises she is not going to comply going forward (well you hope!)

Just wanted to say my heart goes out to you. Very eloquent post. It is a very harsh world for kids.

You need to call the police.
I'm afraid to say it but even though he's your DS, some people are just bad apples. And it seems like your DS is one of them, so just focus on the safety of yourself and your daughter.

We haven't ignored any advice, and I have said we are in contact with the police and social services. It's an ongoing process and not an overnight fix. There doesn't appear to be any charities in Scotland but if I have missed this then I apologise.

We are obviously limited whilst he is on the run with a mobile phone that likely holds a lot of information.

Panic alarm has been installed last night, markers have been put on DMs house, ours and PIL if he appears and we dial 999 they will be out.

OP, I know it’s hard not to dwell on what went wrong but right now I think you’re doing the right thing by distancing yourself, but letting him know you will be there if he wants help.

My friends son was in your sons position, deep into drug dealing and treating everyone who loved him horribly.

He was also groomed as a young teenager and things started slowly. He was so young he didn’t understand and by the time he did understand it was too late to get out.

He ended up in jail, and he was relieved. He said he spent every day on the ‘outside’ living in fear. Constantly looking over his shoulder and never being able to relax. He felt safe in jail, he got a job and when he was released he managed to turn his life around.

His relationship with his family is good now and he has a son who he is a great dad to.

There is hope, your son is still young and has time to change things

OP, I'm so sorry to hear your situation, it sounds desperate for all of you. You've clearly done and are doing all you can. I very much hope that when the police find and arrest him, this will be the start of a better future. It's heartbreaking but it does sound as though he needs to hit rock bottom to take any actual help (as opposed to enabling) that's available.

You can lock the phone via Apple or whoever they can wipe it and block it

www.stgilestrust.org.uk/support-us/keep-children-safe/county-lines/

www.catch-22.org.uk/find-services/county-lines-support-and-rescue/

Up until the age of 15 DS lived at home with us
You ds had gone off the rails well before the age of 15! Quit blaming your mum!

God how does it help blaming this woman who is trying to help her son

She is looking for solutions not an analysis on what might have gone wrong

She has tried her best and whilst some of you think that isn’t good enough why not look at ways to help her improve things?

A child’s future is at stake here and all some can do is attack her parenting skills!

@Quitelikeit but neither of those two charities seem to operate in Scotland where OP is?

Pretty sure SPACE, which I mentioned upthread, operates nationwide:

https://www.bespaceaware.co.uk/

Sorry - link stripped for some reason.

Well I didn’t have the time to look at exclusion zones on the websites!

Im sure OP can manage to do that herself

Yes the travelling around for sports/football when young, parents working full time under pressure so not as observant to any problems with clubs and the change of behaviour; red flags for possible abuse. There was a huge scandal with paedophile ring football coaches which was covered up for years.

OP, I just wanted to send you some support and say I can imagine how horrendous and devastating this is for you. I'm parent to young men and have been through some difficult times, but yours must be heartbreaking. What @Savingthehedgehogs says really nails it. I hope the shock of what's happening helps your son to reset his life.

Perfectly said 👍🏼

Most parents make sacrifices for their children, I certainly have. OP was in a desperate situation and engaged the support of her mum. Who wouldn't? And sometimes there is no textbook answer. Most people in desperate situations do what they believe is right at the time and easy to blame others in highly emotional situations, especially with family.
So I believe your comments were both harsh and unfair

I worked in an Education Department in a Cat B prison some years ago (when I first graduated from Uni) and I am aware that there are plenty of people in Prison that have had good a very good and stable upbringing, but have chosen a different path in life, partly because they have had a friend or relative that has made excuses for their behaviour or enabled their bad behaviour.

They felt like they were invincible and that their behaviour wouldn’t catch up with them… but as I said… they were in Prison with some very scary and dangerous people. That’s probably the point when they realised that the rules apply to them and there are consequences for their actions.

I had many a student realise in ‘social and life skills lessons’ that they had been utter idiots and hopefully they changed their ways after release.

OP it may be that the judiciary will be the only route for change, but each person is responsible for their own actions and this isn’t your fault!

OP just wanted to drop a note of support… People are judgemental arseholes and should remember the phrase “there but for the grace of God…” You have by the sounds of it a happy healthy “normal” daughter.. you did not cause this.. you found yourself in an impossible situation with a clever manipulative child, possibly groomed by clever manipulative people, and a grandmother blinded by “love”.. I wish you well, I hope your son finds his way back, but by the sounds of it needs to hit rock bottom first.. Please make the best decisions you can for you, your husband and your daughter.. Your son is an adult, it must be heartbreaking to have to choose to let go, but it sounds like you must. Don’t blame yourselves it sounds as if you have done everything you can.

My heart goes out to you OP. You sound like a loving and caring parent who has tried everything and is at your wits end. Now that your son is almost an adult there is little you can do on your own but there is help out there as some here have suggested. I wonder if your son has PDA autism? Children with this condition have a Jekle and Hyde personality and need help to control their emotions and behaviours. I wish you well, go easy on grandma, she was out of her depth and probably acted out of love for her grandson, as have you.