Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

It’s too late now, he’s an adult. He can’t be forced to accept help.

Good luck OP. Don't listen to people judging your parenting. You are a great mum and doing your best under very difficult circumstances.

I agree with M103. It sounds as if you've done everything you can to support your son and I find it abhorrent that people on here are so ready to make damning judgements about your parenting. It is perfectly normal to work full time and to rely on a family member for childcare. I'm sure you feel an enormous sense of undeserved guilt for how things are and these comments aren't helpful but I also think you should stop attaching blame to your mother who has also done her best out of love, however misguided.

It seems apparent that, at some point, your son met someone manipulative who involved him in drugs. All those on here assuming this couldn't happen to their child because of their superior parenting skills, are fooling themselves. Drug gangs know exactly how to lure bright young people into their clutches. What begins as friendship quickly escalates into intimidation.

There really is no point in going over the whys and wherefores now. You have kept communication open and assured your son that he can turn to you when he's ready and able. I can’t really see what more you can do, except research any organisations that might be able to offer intervention and support as and when he's ready to accept it.
In the meantime OP, I wish you some peace however impossible that may seem.

Children don't just suddenly 'change', unless there's a reason for that behavioural shift - particularly if op has another, pretty well adjusted child.

My first thoughts when I read this were:

• Trauma of some kind aged 12 (which the op has discounted)
• Grooming into county lines activity
• Undiagnosed SEN (no response to rewards/ consequences, triggered by transition to secondary school, multiple examples of high anxiety and self medication).

Essentially though, whichever one it is, it all boils down the fact that support was neither sought nor provided early enough on the path to self destruction. Sadly, it may now have gone too far and I'm desperately sorry for you, op. I'm not sure what the answer is. Counselling, referral for mental health support if he'll engage with anything/ acknowledge there are serious issues. Does he acknowledge the problems? What is the result if/ when you try to engage with him?

EDIT - just read op's responses and seen much of the above is covered. It seems like he's been offered so much support, op. I'm sorry.

Thank you for updating @thetroublewithteens - I'm sorry it's not better news, though it's hard to see what would have been a good outcome under the circumstances. I hope the way things play out will eventually be positive for him even if it takes a while.

I'm also really sorry that you picked up so much flak on your thread. I can't see that any of this was your fault at all. I've just been reading a thread about a teenager in a coercive relationship and the truth is that at this age parents have limited influence over what happens even though kids don't have the maturity to make good choices. I suspect all the holier than thou types on the thread have much younger kids and are in for a rude awakening eventually.

Look after yourself. This stuff takes its toll. x

Lovely post and SPOT ON

I know you're not coming back to update @thetroublewithteens , but if you're reading, I just want to sympathise and send my best wishes. Some of the holier than thou posts on this thread have made me see red.

I'm lucky to have adult children who've not caused me any problems. But time has taught me that a lot of this IS luck. I was guilty of being a fairly smug parent when my kids were primary age. I'm not proud of that. Experience has taught me that once kids hit teens and gain independence, you can only pray that their peer group, their friends, and their innate personality keep them on track. It can just take one person, one misjudgement on their part, to have everything come tumbling down, however thoughtfully you've parented.

I've seen it happen, and I've worked with these kids. It doesn't just happen to bad parents. It really doesn't.

My SS was pretty much like this but stopped before he was actually dealing himself. He was awful and in the end all his family would have nothing to do with him. His GPs enabled him and believed his lies…….they hid all the stealing from them for years.

In the end he stayed with a friends parent that worked for SS and slowly settled down. This only helped as all family stopped enabling or helping him. He had to hit rock bottom. Until then all he cared about was his mates and didn’t give a crap about anyone else.

The drug taking continued for a few years but he finally turned a corner and settled down. He still has issues now and then but nothing like he was.

Some kids do turn like this once they hit adolescence, he was much loved and tbh spoilt especially by his GPs. Tough love was needed not excuses though.

Your son may turn around in time, and it’s horrid that all you can do is watch. As long as no one is enabling him anymore there’s still a chance.

@thetroublewithteens thank you, thank you. This thread has been a real wake up call for me. I am just like your mum with an adored grandson (12yrs) who I have defended his behaviour with he's a bit cheeky and boys will be boys. But of course he is much worse.

I am reading this thread with a dawning realisation that this could be me in a few years time. My daughter has told me her boundaries and I admit I have lied about what he is allowed to do at my house. But, no more.

I am so sorry about what has happened to your lovely family, but I have learnt from you and am determined to not be like your mum from now on. Thank you.

Just wanted to sympathise op with all you've been through.
Please ignore all the loons who are practicing their armchair psychology on your circumstances.
You sound like you were good parents who did their best. Sometimes kids just go off the rails regardless.
He might find his way to you in time..

@Savingthehedgehogs and @CantDecideAUsename really have it down here.

In tween years children experience changes that make them susceptible to undue outside influence (particularly boys who go through natural developmental phases of attachment to mother, attachment to father and then seeking out their peers as they move into their young teen years). Sturdy parenting in those years is crucial and whilst OP and her husband have tried to hold those lines DM was working behind their backs to undermine them, that’s obvious, she doted on her GS and indulged him. Children are incredibly smart and perceptive, even really young children can learn quickly how to play people off against one another where they are given opportunity.

County Lines is a larger operation than many of the posters on here might think and ‘recruitment’ happens at a very young age. I urge everyone to read up on it very carefully, because people who operate CL are smart, they understand psychology very well and they know that striking in those young tween years is the best time when children are trying to begin to work out who they are, find their identity and try and carve out their place on the world and feel vulnerable because of it (no matter how good their home life and family and the connection to them they have may be).

I beg everyone on this thread with young/tween children to be alert to CL… Open education of your children about drugs and CL are crucial, no matter how far removed from it you might consider yourself, you are not, it can happen to any family in any area, don’t be naïve.

@thetroublewithteens I’ve stumbled across your thread looking for some advice on my own DS and just wanted to say that I hope things have improved for you and your family six months on x

What trauma did he go through? Sorry to ask OP, but happy and well-adjusted kids don’t act like this.

Your welcome to DM me xx

Just wanted to say well done for recognising this… and I hope you’ve been able to work with your daughter and be strong in setting boundaries. Tough love is sometimes the only option.

@thetroublewithteens really hoping things have improved for you too. Seems like you did your best at the time (we could all things differently with hindsight). And maybe you’ve helped prevent @grannytootrue ’s grandson going the same way.

Hello all, funny enough I was contemplating updating this thread yesterday and this morning I wake up and I've got notifications to say people have commented

We are 6 months on and we are in a much better place. Something I didn't think was possible

DS ended up going back to MILs, I spoke to her on the phone and we (DH & me) had 2 choices

We either continued to ask for a space in a hostel, which would potentially push him further into a world of drugs and undesirables or we offered him to come home and got a grip of him. We spoke to his sister, made sure she was okay with it and felt safe.

We offered him to come home, we gave him our boundaries and consequences and told him they were not negotiable. 18 or not, our house, our rules and if he didn't accept them or at any point went against us, he was out on his backside and thankfully he agreed.

We didn't allow him out in the beginning, he was in with me because I wfh. His GF was allowed over in the evenings (after her work) and had to leave by 9.30pm.
He had to look for a job. Apply for anything and everything.
No money, if he needed a haircut or anything, we bought and paid.

Lots of rules. Some quite harsh but he accepted it and we built his freedom up from there.

We took him to Drs, who initially referred him to mental health services but we then received a letter with charities for him to contact for support as he didn't fit the criteria for mental health support.

He went to court in November , which was a bit of a mess around and transpired the procurator fiscal decided to refer him to adult social services. The appointment was completed 2 weeks ago and he has been signed off but they have said they can, and will, bring the charges against him at a future date if he gets into more trouble.

He paid my mum back £5k, money he was supposed to get from us when he turned 18. (If you remember kids when they were born got a £250 voucher and you could save) The day it matured we took him to bank and transferred it to my mum.

His 18th was the most underwhelming birthday, we went for a meal. Just us and then home.

New year, we had a holiday booked and we were determined he wasn't being left at home under the watchful eye of MIL, potentially going out and finding himself in situations with pressure all around him or making stupid choices. So we paid for him to come with us because that way we could keep an eye on him and weren't worried out our minds. We had the choice to cancel ours, and loose thousands because it was close to departure or pay him to come, which was the cheaper option and in honesty, we felt a break away would do him good and it did.

He has a job, a new apprenticeship and is doing well. Only started in March so early days but he is enjoying it. He's had his first pay and transferred me money to give to my mum and pays digs.

He's doing his driving, passed his theory and test ready.

He's apologised to my mum and I've accepted she's a lost cause when it comes to him. She gave him her old car. 🤦🏻‍♀️
Their relationship won't ever be what it was, but speaking with her friend she is minimising what's happened. Her friend is angry on her behalf. Thankfully this friend has been a constant support to my mum and tells her straight how it is. My mum doesn't want to hear it.Blinded by love indeed.

Do you know what baffles me, she hasn't ever acknowledged or apologised for constantly going against us. She did offer me a cheque for a large amount of money though. That's her love language. We politely declined.

We met my mums neighbour last night at supermarket, she has the same view of my mum as I do. Says my mum was the same with me when I was younger, spoilt with money and freedom but no boundaries and consequences.
I asked her why nobody in the street phoned the police, she couldn't really answer me other than to say nobody wanted to get involved and they hadn't realised the severity of the situation. They just thought it was my mum doing what she's always done. Letting her kids and grandkids run a mock whilst thinking she's above everyone. My mum actually told her she was leaving everything to our DS!! Proud as punch with this statement. Thankfully her friend and me have talked sense into her

There's no doubt DS has emotionally abused and manipulated my mum, but the fact is, she allowed it because she did not and still to this day will not tell him no. She's not going to change. I do check in with her once or twice a week but I can't stand her stupidity. It frustrates me no end

And I'll say it again, for any of you who think you are above what's happened to my family. You are wrong. You can be the best parent in the world and children will still make stupid shitty choices with massive consequences.
We can only do the best we can with the knowledge we have at that time.

Thanks to everyone who offered support. We are still working hard with him, but are in a much better place xx

Brilliant news, thank you so much for that positive update. He’s doing well so far at turning his life around with your support
good luck to you all going forward

Oh what a great update. I’m so happy for you all, thanks for coming back x

Thank you for your update. I am pleased that things are slowly improving. Long may this continue! He won’t realised it, but he is so lucky to have you as his Mum.

@thetroublewithteens you and your family have been through the wringer and are now coming out the other side. that is a good update. you cannot change your mum's attitude to your son, which is a pity, but at least he seems to have seen the error of his ways. long may it continue.

Absolutely thrilled for you, OP! My teens are pretty good but it is hands down more difficult than when they were small. And you’re right, shit can happen no matter how good a family they’re from.
Very best to you and the family x

Edited and removed the advice as I hadn't got to the end of the thread and seen the update. Good to see thingsvturned around for him.

Great update. You are fantastic parents. You held him accountable for his actions, well done.

That’s a brilliant update, well done 👏. And it will give hope to lots of desperate parents that there can be light at the end of the tunnel

I was so glad to read your update, had often thought of your thread!