Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

With all due respect, OP. This didn't start when he was 12. This likely started much, much earlier.

Also, is your DDs Dad also his Dad?

The repeated way this is being put at the DMs door is really awful to read.

I feel for you. We go into parenting wanting the best for our children and it feels terrible to see them turn into monsters.

Blame is unhelpful. I believe you when you say you did your best, like most of us, and that in hindsight you can see things should have been different. Again, like most of us.

I too have a 17yo son whose behaviour is very challenging. To put you in the picture..

Throughout his 14-15yo period, he snuck out almost every night and was stoned virtually 24-7. He has been brought home by police numerous times, either because I've reported him missing and suicidal, or for drug offences. Once I found him, at 2am, unconscious in the road. He spent a good year dealing drugs from his bedroom.

He was suspended twice from school for drug-related stuff, then I took him out at 15 because his mental health was so poor. I had him at home on suicide watch for months. Then, remarkably, he agreed to go to an alternative school where he achieved all high school qualifications and a trade certificate in the space of 6 months. Passed his driver's license. Quit dealing and cut his drug use right down. Then into f-t work, at only 16, which he was excited about and tried v hard but unfortunately had landed with a pretty crappy employer. He endured bullying and eventually left, mentally unwell again.

He still has a serious addiction and is absolutely awful to live with, huge rages when he smashes up the house. Etc.

So I do not have the answers to getting your son from where he is to good citizen. But I have walked alongside my boy as he's moved from his sneaking out every night/drug dealing phase through to achieving qualifications, earning money, and committing to therapy.

From where I stand, looking at your situation, I'd take a 2-pronged approach. Firstly to tell my son, repeatedly, how much he is wanted and loved and worried about. I'd remind him of all his strengths (however deep you have to dig!) and relay to him little stories of events/occasions when he brought you joy.

At the same time, I would be very clear about what I expect of him and what I consider non-negotiable. This would be any criminal activity, violence and abuse. I would let him know that I would be getting professional help at any point I needed it, including calling police if ever he hurt or threatened me, stole from me etc. And I would stick to that to the letter. Just yesterday, I had police here because my son had been so scarily shouty and threatening.

I'm not in the UK and I appreciate things work differently there, but here the police are incredible with family harm situations. Two officers came out and chatted with us separately then invited him to come to apologise to me. They both praised him and even said these words, "Remember how loved you are. Everyone loves you - and that includes us, the police"

Tbh I wasn't feeling any love for him at all at that moment but my god I am grateful to those beautiful young officers for stepping in when I was out of gas. I could see the impact it made on my boy. After they left, he asked if he could give me a hug then sat down and said he quite liked the idea of becoming a police officer because maybe he could help people like they helped us.

Our boys need lots of good people around them and it's hard when we are trying to work and look out for our other kids etc. I don't have a partner or any extended family so I have found it lonely - and so has he.

I think if you can stick to these two things, ie ensuring he knows he is loved and wanted, has potential and has not ruined his life (yet!), at the same time as sticking to your boundaries, he's in with a chance.

But I also believe that we can do these things and it may not work. I know my son may not make it. Lots of young men do not, and mine may become one of them. And I think we have to accept that no matter how hard we try, our children may make choices that damage or end their lives.

So keep caring, keep trying, keep calling in support. And keep reminding yourself that you have done your best, you are doing your best, and at this point in his life, it is he who has to the bulk of the work. xx

I was going to ask what his father was doing?
It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong op but how was his father in all of this? It sounds like there could be an issue there? Or some neurodiversity?

OP,

This may help open a line of communication Dr. Ross Greene, The Explosive Child and his website Lives in the Balance.

drrossgreene.com › the-expl...

livesinthebalance.org/

I do hope things may be better for you all in the future.

This is so sad.
No one can tell you why this has happened. But some things do jump out at me from your first post:

• no mention of your husband at all
• lots of blaming of your mother
• no talk about emotional connection
• your other child is described as pretty exemplary.

I don’t think you should write him off at 18. You cannot have him home nor support him financially but cutting him off is the final act no parent should really do. You could still go to your grave having had a relationship with your son despite hard times. If you cut him off you will prove what he thinks he has already learnt - that he can’t trust people and the emotional connections don’t exist. Give him solid boundaries. Involve the police. Zero tolerance on drugs. No free money handouts etc. But you can still show up for him in life and be together some times. Don’t give up on him forever. Best of luck x

@BlueBerryBad lot of luck to you with your son.. ♥️♥️♥️

I think some of the advice you have here is excellent and I think you have had a challenging situation with your DM but you are the parents so it’s not fair to land so much on her door.

To anyone else in this type of situation reading this and wondering what to do I would say call the police very early doors, when they will still work with you and will try and ‘scare’ your child into changing.

It also shows them that you have very clear boundaries and a zero tolerance for criminal behaviour. It’s hard to do, and you have to make sure that the police will
work with you but it can often nip it in the bud

Sounds like something to do with school in the past: Something happening at school. Something he couldn’t cope with. Couldn’t tell you about. Now it’s the drugs. What drug is it? I recently read Dopesick and it’s hugely eye opening about the effects of heroin and opioids. He needs serious serious help of addicted to that drug. He’s no longer in control of himself. The stories of families like yours in the book are also devastating but might give you some hope / encouragement that you are not alone.

This is an actually really quite an awful post

I have a son one year older. He has MH difficulties. What resonated with me was how good lockdown was for your DS. Same for mine. I think the external pressures were lifted (mostly school), social pressures were gone (staying home), much more family time. My son almost certainly has undiagnosed ASD and he is diagnosed ADD. Life is very hard to handle for him. A PP mentioned trauma. Some of that could just be a response to navigating life with neuro diversity. My son's character is very different to yours so his ways of coping are different, but I believe my second son would be more like yours should he have had the same issues as his older brother. Possibly he drugs etc was just a way to dampen the pain of coping with living. It was very hard for my son to go back to school after lockdown and he struggled (but he struggled before too). He also has a terrible relationship with his Dad where he feels his Dad isn't proud of him and doesn't love him (not true but he feels it). I wonder how your DS's relationship is with his Dad.

Anyway, your family sounds quite good if lockdown life was good for your son. Rest assured it's not you, and even a diagnosis of neuro diversity isn't going to change his experience of life, possibly just give him more excuses. It's hard to know, but just to reassure you that I think it's probably about some neuro diversity combined with his character (choices he's made) which has led to this.

It all sounds incredibly hard OP. Good luck in navigating it. All I would say is that at 18 he is now an adult in the eyes of SS and the law and so forth. You can't do anything for him really now other than let him hit his personal rock bottom so that he is incentivised to do something about it

This is the post you should read op. Incredible support and insight.

I have young adult sons. Don’t blame yourself. He was looked after by his loving grandma for a couple of hours after school, like loads of kids. It’s not because you worked.

As he’s still a minor, SS should seek a care order. It may not do any good right now. But certainly in England (I think you may be elsewhere) being a care leaver entitles him to more once over 18, such as accommodation if homeless and ongoing support. Otherwise, he’ll turn 18 and that’s it. On his own.

Sounds like he may’ve been groomed into drugs from a young age. You don’t say what drugs it is. Weed’s one thing, but if it’s heroin etc, that’s pretty heavy in terms of who he’ll be involved with, how violent they may be and how he might behave if he needs to score/owes money. You all need advice from the police and drug charities on how to protect yourselves, especially your DM. If he owes money, they could threaten your DM to get him to pay up.

If he’s been using heavy drugs (including skunk) from a young age, it’s likely affected his brain development. He may also be deeply involved with v violent people and traumatised by what he’s witnessed/been subjected to/done himself. It’ll be hard for you to get him out of it. The best hope would be a charity with men with lived experience, who’ve got out and who know what he’s going through and can talk him through it. Look into that and ask their advice.

Practically, there’s nothing you can do. He has to decide to get out. Don’t give him money or anything he can sell, however much he begs. Don’t let him in the house. If he wants to see you, meet him in a cafe etc.

But emotionally, your little boy who loves his football is still in there. Don’t give up on him emotionally. Message that you love him every morning when you wake up. And every night when you go to sleep. Don’t ask where he is or what he’s doing. Don’t tell or ask him what to do. Or even converse. Just tell him you love him: “Night son, I’m off to sleep now. Love you, mum xxx”. Knowing that could help him get back. Don’t miss a day, whatever he’s done. Drugs are consistent and reliable. So must you be.

And could his dad try to do something with him on a weekly basis? Same day, same time. Meet to watch the football. Just normal stuff. Not to talk about his life or tell him what to do. Just light and breezy. A routine to look forward to other than the drugs. He may not turn up most weeks. But if his dad’s there waiting for him every Saturday, he might come sometimes. Sometimes he may watch his dad waiting but not be able to face him. But he’ll know he’s there. Wait 30 mins, then leave. Again, it may act like a beacon in a stormy sea and help him find his way back.

Through these simple acts, he’ll know neither of you judge him or have given up on him. And that gives him a lifeline and a way out when he’s ready. Though it could take years. Focus on your daughter. Sending strength.

ADHD? I would want to at least rule that out.

Support for families with difficult/dysregulated children is shit and it is usually blamed on the parents despite them begging for help and trying to get support in place.

I agree. I can't believe what some posters are saying - comparing what little they know of the situation to their own childhoods and assuming abuse by the parents. It's incredible. I'm fairly sure that if OP was abusive or neglectful, she wouldn't be posting a thread on MN asking for advice and quite clearly tearing her hair out.

Has your ds ever been assessed for ADHD?. All teens with this may not react as severely as your son but there are a lot of pointers. Is there any history of similiar but maybe not as severe behaviour in the extended family as it can be hereditary. ds was only diagnosed much later but Covid brought this to a head as he found working from home, less social life etc so much easier. We also had severe difficulties with him as a teen , not as bad as yours but heading in that direction. The only person who could influence him was my dm as she was actually a very strict old fashioned, no nonsense mother and he was actually a bit afraid of her so she could rein him in a bit.
I would suggest rehab in a young person's facility if that is possible as l am outside the UK. Do not give up on him. As said by a previous poster tell him you love him, are so concerned about him, want what's best for him and are going to fight for him forever. He won't look like he is receiving that but somewhere it will hit.
My ds is in a full time job now, no drugs or alcohol and has a long term gf. Since his ADHD diagnosis he takes meds for that now but he had come clean years ago. Some issues of ADHD still affect him such as impulsive behaviour around money but he is a wonderful young man now. We also have another ..now adult..child who had absolutely no issues with the same parenting. I don't want to write too much about him here but PM me if that is any support.

Your mum sounds like a woman trying to placate and protect herself from a violent male.

I know this post is going to get leapt on, but I'm going to go for it anyway.

In no way am I saying your son's behaviour is acceptable. It sounds very difficult to live with and I really feel for you all, especially your mum.

With children behaviour is communication. Why did he suddenly change from a high achieving largely compliant boy into one who got into all sorts of trouble starting age 12? What was going on for him?

PP have given some ideas including neurodivergence and trauma either experienced inside or outside of the home. Why wasn't this investigated more thoroughly when he was 12/13? Was anyone interested in his experience? Did he get therapy and quality time spent with him to give him space to feel safe and open up?

It's also 100% possible to have a pretty average, or even luxurious lifestyle on paper but grow up lacking decent attachment from parents, to constantly get the message that you aren't good enough/not as good as your sibling, for your parents to only be interested in your achievements but not your internal world.

I'm not saying those things are what's happened but it is interesting that you point to the material things and seem unaware of his emotional journey during childhood. Those behaviours aren't coming from a place of happiness and security in self.

Trauma isn't just what happens to us, it can also be what we needed but didnt get.

@Perfect28 Not contradictory at all if OP is in Scotland.

I’ve name changed for this but reading some of the comments here has left me aghast! It’s all well and good to blame the parents but that’s not always the case.

I’ve been through one hell of a ride with my son…he changed literally overnight. Like you, average house, good life, he was very academic and sporty then suddenly changed beyond recognition. In the end I went to the police for help as I didn’t know where else to turn. We have had (and stilll get) a lot of help from social workers and he changed schools. What’s come out is that he was being badly bullied by both teachers and his peers! An incident at school where he got punished but the other boy didn’t sent him spiralling. Teachers then weren’t interested in him, other students were constantly pushing his buttons waiting for a reaction, others trying to entice him into the world of dealing. His grades were dropping, his mental health hit the floor.

He was vulnerable and felt accepted by those who could manipulate him. He’s currently awaiting an ADHD diagnosis and hopefully we are back on the right path. I’ve done parenting courses to try to help understand him better and whilst I’m still learning it’s helping enormously.

I’ve rambled a bit now - sorry. What I’m saying is try everyone, someone will eventually listen. Please PM me if you’d like any more info.

People need to stop going on about what they think has caused this. It makes no difference. The issue is what to do with where he's at. If, in time, he settles enough to engage with a therapist or mentor, he can explore his issues including any trauma or neurological disorders but that is so far down the path from here, this family is in crisis.

And it makes absolutely no difference who you think is "to blame". Again, moot point. This is where he's at.

And lastly, no, no child is born a "bad apple". That is the most ignorant thing I've read this month.

Hi OP I don’t have any advice unfortunately however this sounds an awful lot like my older brother, he ‘turned’ around the same age and while he’d always been a bit of a bully to me he became something else entirely. It was following the ‘cool kids’ at school and getting into drugs that started it, no trauma or anything bad at home. He WAS the bad at home. I won’t bore you with the details but just to say it’s nice to read you’re prioritising your daughter, I wish my mum had done the same.

I think you could all be up against powerful national drugs gangs not just the local gang.
He is caught in their web and has been since secondary school it seems and if this is the case, he’s actually quite powerless to change his ways.

It’s futile trying all the normal stuff to get your boy back. It seems your DM has suffered most with her house trashed and being robbed at every turn, let alone the emotional and physical abuse and trauma. She is probably well known by the local gang. She has spared you the worst of it and now needs support and protection because she is a target. You have to step up there to help her. Would she consider selling up and starting again somewhere new?

Your son has been immune to all normal attempts and pleas from you, his GM, school, SS, police etc because he is a member of the gang and is closely controlled by them. He could have been groomed and manipulated by them even before secondary school, probably very scared at the times he was threatened. Did you ever check his phone OP, as a young teen?

If he is as clever as you describe, he will be using that to evade justice and all other influences because there is no way out for him except to keep going forward. He’s caught in that trap, -and the threats if he doesn’t keep paying up will include violence.

The sooner the police catch up with him the better. He needs time behind bars if he is to get a break and see normality again, just like the time he was unreachable by them during covid.

Keep talking to him whenever he allows it. Tell him how much you love him. Chat about your normal mundane home life stuff. Give him hope that one day he can be free of this awful life.

Sometimes there isn't a reason. By that I mean nurture can't always override nature. Some people are just born with brains that give them antisocial personalities (according to the standards of our society) and there is nothing anyone can do about it.