Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

Yes she was our childcare.

So DM would come at 8am and drop DS into school and meet childminder at school for DD around 8.45

Childminder would take DD to nursery in the afternoon.

DM would collect both from nursery and school at 3pm and DH would collect at 4.30/5 then I'd be home at 5.30

Edited as I realise you asked why. Because she offered and a childminder was not interested in having DS for such little time. Its not worth their while and they prefer babies and toddlers who require longer hours. Otherwise he's taking up a space they can utilise better.

We honestly didn't see the harm in DM looking after them. Obviously if we'd known things would have changed but its easy to say we should have given up work but bills needed paying and we weren't in a position to not work

Op

Please ignore the posters telling you you're a bad parent. You are not.

Sometimes kids get in with wrong friendship groups and go awol. I have 3 older boys. I'm currently no contact with my eldest boy. He told me to fuck off at 18 and went down a similar route to your ds. Girl involved. Girl got pregnant. Girl also miscarried slightly but ds, also already had a baby at this point who from the day he was born shared custody with the mother until the new girl and friends came along.

He abandoned his son in 2021. I have not spoken to him since 2022.

I do hear how he's doing and after a few years losing his way he's in a house share now and working full time. And to quote my middle son "he no longer looks homeless or on drugs"

I often blamed myself, my boys had a good upbringing, they have all been brought up the same and my other two sons are so different from him, middle boy is the age eldest went off the rails. I love my son dearly but until he makes amends with his own son I can't even start to rebuild a relationship with him. He stole, lied, destroyed our house, drugs, set fires, all the things your son is. This all started age 16 with him.

I think your ds now needs to find his own way in life. You've offered all the support you can. He's had all other support offered and refused. One day he will realise.

Sending

OP, I tend to agree with the pp who said this is probably just down to some sort of problem with your son. He does sound like a psychopath.

Sometimes psychopaths can become good members of society, but I think it makes it very easy for them to go off the rails altogether, under conditions a "normal" child wouldn't blink at. So sure, maybe some different choices might have changed things, but that's very much a hindsight thing.

For now, I would just try and support your mum and daughter. Your son will need to make his own way, find his own housing. It might even be good for him.

Try to get some rest OP. You seemed to have tried your best to help your son.

It is not unusual for people to rely on their parents to help with childcare so you didn't do anything wrong there. Your mum seems to have tried to support him and keep a roof over his head. You both having full time jobs it also not unusual so you haven't done anything wrong there.

I can't give you any advice but you sound like someone who is exhausted and confused at what went wrong.

Have you ever tried to have a conversation with him to find out how he sees his upbringing? He might feel he was misunderstood or he didn't have the space to talk to anyone when things were tough for him. This is not about blaming anyone, but trying to understand and heal as it sounds like it has been tough for the whole family.

I hope your son will somehow get back on track and eventually go on to have a positive future and hopefully you can rebuild a relationship with him.

If he is an addict, I'd hold back on criticising him because he probably knows his flaws at this stage and it might make him worse, I'd also not allow alcohol/drugs at your house if he does visit (have someone else there for support if needed) and I would avoid giving him money directly. He obviously isn't in control of his life so you will have to protect yourselves unfortunately in case he isn't able to respect your boundaries at the moment. Keep any interactions with calm and keep boundaries in place without putting him down. Keep your own life stable and on track. Then all you can do is hope for the best he'll work his way through it. I'm sorry your going through this. Hopefully he'll figure it out as the years go on. You could mention indirectly, people who have got help for other things and who have improved their life as a result. It might inspire him

I've had messages from him on Instagram, I asked if he was safe and he's said yes.

There's been conversation, I'm trying to appeal to his better nature but his arrogance is astounding.

There is no hope. None.

There is drugs and cash still in my DMs house so he says and he'll bet on it the police won't find it. Absurd.

I give up. Thank you all again

There is another long road ahead I feel, he'll come back like a boomerang full of lies and false hope. Xx

You're doing the best you can. Some people simply make bad choices and it's second nature to them. You're also a mother to a daughter and doing so much for her as well. Keep strong x

Your poor mum. It is really sad your husband didn’t take the day off work so that she didn’t have to face your son alone. This should not have happened. It is important from now on to take decisions, which keep everyone safe. It’s about pre-empting situations rather than looking back after the event.

The only positive thing to come out of yesterday is your ds is now firmly on police radar. Hopefully he will get some help. As for what your ds said, will you be pulling the house apart to find the drugs and money? If you don’t, it is highly likely he will break in to get them.

I would suggest you ensure both your and your mum’s house is secure.

Ah fuck. It sounds really bad. Sorry OP.

Can you even do anything when he’s 18. You might just have to ride this wave and keep your fingers crossed he lands on his feet.

If all you can do is focus on your daughter - then do that.

The comments here are very harsh. Some posters are acting like if social services started helping less than a year earlier this would never have happened. This is both unrealistic and simplistic. It probably wouldn't have mattered. Sometimes kids just don't turn out the way you hope and the blame doesn't help.

I read a sobering article in the atlantic about how harmful stress can be to a baby in pregnancy. Not everything this in the parent's control. Wiring plays a part.

Some of the responses in here are awful OP. Unfortunately children become more influenced by peer pressure as they reach high school. It sounds like your son made some poor friendship choices and teenagers, especially male teenagers will seek dopamine thrills. Most will do this by being active and maybe a bit daft boy when playing with friends. Some seek drugs and other risky behaviour. Working FT is not the cause of this. I feel very sorry for your situation but do not have him back home. You need to let him live on his own and make his own choices. Hopefully he will grow up at some point but who knows. He needs to be accountable now for his actions. He will get housed by social housing and get benefits and likely keep using. But there’s not much you can do at this age. I’m so sorry for you.

I feel for you OP. I've been in a similar position myself with one of mine and for all those saying kids just don't turn bad overnight, believe me they can. I begged social services for help and got nothing from them so I don't understand why people think they are some magical intervention. I wish I had advice for you but it's still ongoing for me even now they are an adult, I live with constant dread that one day I'll get the knock at the door to say something has happened and they are dead because we've been to hospital a few times due to the consequences of drugs. I really sympathise with you because the strain it puts on everyone is massive and until he wants help and wants to change you'll feel helpless.

Sometimes people can just turn out bad, like bad apples. It's not your fault OP, I am sure you did the best you could. He was probably just born that way and life has a way of teaching us all lessons.

You are putting way too much blame on your mother. Indulgent grand-parenting does not cause these problems. They sound far more complicated than that.

If you can, get him into care now whilst he's still a minor. Tell SS you cannot have him there due to his violence and you have to safeguard your DD. They will house him and help him access accommodation and benefits once he's 18.

Nobody will help you or him once he's 18. They will wash their hands of him and he'll be on the street unless you house him.

Sometimes you have to accept that you cannot fix things. Plenty of parents work full time so don't beat yourself up with this.

He is an addict. I think actually police involvemetn would be a good thing youth offending teams are brilliant and understand yoing men. If you can possibly afford it and he will agree I would suggest some sort of residential occupation ( sailing/ skiing/ volunteering) far away. Otherwise and I do realise how old fashioned this sounds, what about the army, it sounds like he has the potential to do well but needs to be kept away from bad influences.

This was my first thought too. Very difficult to get yourself out of that life if this is what happened, if it is he will definitely need your help.

If you can get him into care, I agree with PP, do... because yes once he is 18, no ones going to give a crap tbh.

Sometimes, and I say this from the experience of being the teenager in a home with a wildly out of control, violent, theiving sibling... you have to step back and let them sink or swim.

Please ignore the pile-on, from the people who have never lived with this sort of behaviour from a loved one, who genuinely think kids only go this way because the parents are at fault - this just isn't true!

Op your mother is st severe risk. It’s imperative that she is supported to ensure he leaves. Not only is she having her things stolen, but it sounds like they are using her to commit fraud. They are using her house to deal drugs. This situation sounds really out of control. And dangerous for her, they willl sometimes carry knives and weapons.

First and foremost your son has to leave your mothers house. You may need a restraining order. The safety of your mother must come first.

Secondly, you give ds an ultimatum. He either sorts himself out and comes home, or you will report him to the police. I would contact a local outreach programme that work with young people, and see what you can do to support him.

Take a break from working both you and dh need to take some time off and face this head on. You have avoided this for too long already..He will end up in prison if this continues, and I would look at enrolling him with the army or navy. He needs to learn discipline and respect.

Just read the bit where he's told you there is still cash and drugs at your DMs, you need to find that/inform the police or he will be back for it.

It sounds like your DM needs protecting. Ring cameras, emergency alarm. I'd suggest that she stays with you except he would probably break into her home. Perhaps your husband should stay with her? Your husband does seem remarkably absent in all this? Your son will almost certainly come back when he needs more money. You need to withdraw support until or unless he asks for your help to recover. Family counselling would be a start, but he needs to want to make things better.

From my point of view,I was like you’re son as a teen,not to that extent but I was bad,my parents were always at work,if they weren’t at work they were asleep,they had no input in my life,I rebelled,ultimately I grew out of it but I still have the anger towards my parents.

What was he actually like as a child? Not what he did in terms of school and sports but who was he as a person? Theres a difference between being “good” in terms of being smart and able and being “good” in terms of how you treat people.

I don’t actually think it’s always parenting. Loads of kids have a lot of childcare from indulgent grandparents but don’t end up like this. Tbh as well many people work full time and spend their weekends doing family stuff.

Agree with others that the police should be told that he is saying there are still drugs hidden in your DM's house. It puts her in an extremely vulnerable position of he or any of his friends try to get in to get them back.
I have no idea if the police would agree but perhaps a drug dog could be used if he has hidden them well. If they do find them , then send him a picture of the drugs in situ so he knows going back is pointless. This may help protect her little.

Did it start at 12 or did it start in primary? Your account is contradictory.